|Hacking the Afterlife Podcast|
Podcast with Kristin Taylor - "How I Made it Through" about the book THE GREATEST STORY NEVER TOLD AS TOLD BY JESUS AND THOSE WHO KNEW HIM."
|From a fan|
Here's the latest podcast about THE GREATEST STORY NEVER TOLD AS TOLD BY JESUS AND THOSE WHO KNEW HIM via Kirstin Taylor's "How I Made it Through."
Forward by the late great Charles Grodin.
Research continues, however focused on the author's journey into the life of Amelia Earhart, and then reports of what people claimed Jesus was saying to them from the flipside. Also includes an interview with Edgar Cayce, Prince, Robin Williams. I had edited the Robin chapter out of the book when he came to Jennifer Shaffer, the medium, and told her to tell me to "put it back in." (She did not know there was a chapter about him.)
THE FLIPSIDE OF PLATO’S NEAR DEATH ACCOUNT: “THE MYTH OF ER”
“If the knowledge which we acquired before birth was lost to us at birth, and afterwards by the use of the senses we recover that which we previously knew, will not that which we call learning be a process of recovering our knowledge, and may not this be rightly termed recollection by us? .. (Therefore) our souls must have existed before they were in the form of man — without bodies, and must have had intelligence.”
Socrates (as reported in Phaedo 72c-82e “On the Soul” written by Plato)
Plato by Conego 1783
In Plato’s REPUBLIC the last chapter is about the “Myth of Er” — myth being a term for “story of” rather than “Made up story about.” Either way, if what Er had to say about the flipside is accurate, then some of his story, or all of his story should follow the same architecture that others have said about the afterlife.
In terms of data, I highly recommend reading Dr. Greyson’s book AFTER, or the various online peer reviewed studies done by Dr. Ed Kelly or Dr. Emily Kelly — all three of whom I met when giving a talk at the UVA Medical lab DOPS after the publication of my book FLIPSIDE — about people under hypnosis saying the same hallmarks about the afterlife. (See Dr. E Kelly’s “Near-Death Experiences with Reports of Meeting Deceased People.” 2001) https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/wp-content/uploads/sites/360/2017/01/KEL13-NDEwithReports-of-Meeting-Deceased-People.pdf)
As Dr. Greyson noted in our discussion, Ian Stevenson, the founder of the Department of Perceptual Studies (DOPS at UVA) was adamant against using hypnosis in studies (other than when he used it in cases of Xenoglossy) because of possible bias. That is — a hypnotist wants to help someone access a past life, and perhaps the client wants to please that hypnotist by inventing it.
But as I pointed out, that argument didn’t explain the thousands of people across the globe who were reporting the same hallmarks during these sessions; people from all different religions, different beliefs or non-beliefs, atheists, skeptics were reporting guides, teachers, classmates, libraries, council, council members, life reviews, life planning sessions, etc during their four to six hour sessions.
As I argued, “At the very least, there’s a dataset of people that should be investigated further.”
Since that meeting in 2012, I’ve expanded the research into other case studies of past lives via hypnosis — Dr. Helen Wambach’s case studies, Dr. Brian Weiss cases as well as examining NDE accounts (something that science has studied) by having the NDE experiencers undergo a hypnotherapy session to revisit the event.
In those cases, even with people who “experienced nothing” during the NDE, all reported the same hallmarks during their revisiting the event through hypnosis — or for the past 8 years via guided meditation.
That is — no hypnosis. Having coffee in public, in a café, asking them simple questions. Asking them to revisit the event, and then from there, asking them to ask questions to their guides, teachers, to describe the ARCHITECTURE OF THE AFTERLIFE, or to speak directly to their teachers in DIVINE COUNCILS IN THE AFTERLIFE.
In the most recent book, there’s an experiment with 20 scientists, professionals, clergy, including a neuroscientist from Harvard. All of them had in common doing a guided meditation, but not had met me nor read my books nor knew they could access a “council.” Yet all of them did.
Even as a dataset, that would make it “abnormal” or “paranormal” to suggest that anyone could not. Again, no hypnosis, just speaking on zoom for less than an hour. All were able to meet a guide or guides, learn new information from people off stage, meet teachers, guides, council members who gave them new information about their lives and journey.
In that vein, I wanted to take a look at the “Myth of Er” and see if we can’t unpack it a bit in light of the data, research and footage about the FLIPSIDE (both FLIPSIDE and HACKING THE AFTERLIFE documentaries are available on Gaia or via Amazon Prime.)
So as a fun exercise, I thought I’d examine the story from Plato’s Republic of the first recorded Near Death Experience. A Greek soldier “dead” for ten days who spontaneously woke up on his funeral pyre. The premise being: if near death accounts are common and researchable, then one from 2500 years ago would have the same hallmarks.
From a website about the “Myth of Er” from Plato’s REPUBLIC:
“The Myth of Er is a tale in Greek mythology about a man who died on a battlefield and returned to life nine days later, recounting what happened in the afterlife. The word “myth” was used in the ancient Greek sense, meaning account, rather than the present-day meaning.
Er was a man who died during a battle, and along with the souls of the other combatants, he was led to a magnificent place that had four doors; two into and out of the sky, and two into and out of the earth. There were judges who decided which path each soul should follow depending on the life they had led on Earth. The good ones were told to go to the sky, while the bad ones were led into the earth. From the sky exit, souls that appeared clean came out, telling of a place that filled them with incredible feelings. The souls that emerged from the earth exit were dirty and were talking about the misery and the difficulties they faced as punishment of what they had done while alive. Some souls, however, those of murderers and other criminals, were not allowed to exit the earth and remained trapped forever.
Er was told that he would not be judged and that he should remain there in order to see the whole procedure and report it back to mankind. Seven days later, they were all led to another place where there was the Spindle of Necessity. Necessity or Ananke was a primordial goddess and personification of fate.
There, the souls were given a lottery number, and based on that, each of them was told to ask what their next life should be. The first soul, having travelled through the sky in the previous area, decided to become a dictator; when that happened, though, he didn’t realize that he was destined to eat his own children because of his actions. Er realized that the souls that had travelled through the sky and had not lived the punishment of the other path, often chose bad things for their next lives, while the opposite happened for the souls that had been punished.
Once the souls chose their next life, they were led under the throne of Necessity to the River Lethe (Forgetfulness), where they were told to drink in order to forget their previous lives. That night, when each soul fell asleep, they were sent to new bodies to lead their new lives. Er’s soul did not go through all of this and did not drink from the River Lethe, thus remembering everything he had experienced.
When he woke up, he returned to his old body which had not decomposed during that period, but he found himself on the funeral pyre that his fellow soldiers had started. They saved him from the flames and he managed to recount his experience in the afterlife.
The myth was used by Socrates to show that the choices people make have an impact on the afterlife, and that those who pretend to be pious but are false in their souls will be eventually punished in the next life.”
“The Myth of Er is a legend that concludes Plato’s Republic (10.614–10.621). The story includes an account of the cosmos and the afterlife that greatly influenced religious, philosophical, and scientific thought for many centuries.
The story begins as a man named Er, son of Armenios of Pamphylia dies in battle. When the bodies of those who died in the battle are collected, ten days after his death, Er remains undecomposed. Two days later he revives in his funeral-pyre and tells others of his journey in the afterlife, including an account of reincarnation and the celestial spheres of the astral plane. The tale includes the idea that moral people are rewarded and immoral people punished after death.
Although called the Myth of Er, the word “myth” here means “word, speech, account”, rather than the modern meaning. The word is used at the end when Socrates explains that because Er did not drink the waters of Lethe, the account (mythos in Greek) was preserved for us.”
Dante Rossetti; Mnemosyne — Goddess of Memory
( Note: Er “Did not drink the waters of Lethe.” Actually this story includes the myth of the Goddess of Memory, who was THE MOST FAMOUS Goddess for a long time — but ironically has been forgotten. She was invoked daily prior to a Greek play because the actors sometimes had to remember days-worth of dialog.
She’s in charge of the “memory” of previous lifetimes for humans. When a person is born, she gives them a drink from a river that makes them “Forget all of their previous lifetimes.” Then, when they cross over after a lifetime, she gives them a drink from the river Lethe which causes them to “Remember all of their previous lifetimes.”
So Plato arguing that Er forgot to take a sip, or missed the sip — is a metaphor for bypassing the “filters on the brain that are in place when we incarnate.”
A discussion of the filters on the brain that block “information not conducive to survival” can be found on pg 128 of Dr. Greyson’s book AFTER, or in Dr. Helen Wambach’s research in “RELIVING PAST LIVES.” In her research of 2750 case studies, she suggests that the “hypervigilant left brain” was blocking the raw “wave of information” from the right brain. Suggesting, as many post materialists scientists do now, that the brain functions as a receiver.
The stereo receiver receives the full wave of sound, but uses limiters and filters to block information not usable or needed for survival. When the receiver’s plug is pulled, the unit itself may stop transmitting but the music itself does not stop.
Mnemosyne, the Goddess, is the one who gives us a cocktail on the way in so we forget our previous journeys here, and a drink on the way out so we recall them.
Which is the equivalent of the “filters” involved. Important to note that some children don’t have those filters until the 8th year, recall previous lifetimes, see people others cannot. Some elderly lose them prior to passing, recall previous lifetimes, see people others cannot. As Dr. Greyson observes in his talk “Is Consciousness Produced by the Brain?” (Youtube 2011) 70% of the hospice care workers in the UK have dementia patients who spontaneously recover their memory just prior to passing. “As if the filters on the atrophied brains were dying along with the brain.” https://youtu.be/sPGZSC8odIU )
“With many other souls as his companions, Er had come across an awe-inspiring place with four openings — two into and out of the sky and two into and out of the ground. Judges sat between these openings and ordered the souls which path to follow: the good were guided into the path into the sky, the immoral were directed below. But when Er approached the judges, he was told to remain, listening and observing in order to report his experience to humankind.”
(Note: In the UVA study cited above by Dr. E Kelly, “Among the 553 NDE cases in our collections, 74 (13%) involved deceased persons.” (Being “dead” for ten days, then put on a funeral pyre, aside from the lack of water being consumed, seems to indicate Er would be considered a deceased person. In the study, “Among the 274 cases… 69% reported seeing or sensing the presence of someone, whether recognized or unrecognized.” “11% identified one of them as a religious figure.” (ibid) (I’m using this one study as an overall example, there are more by Dr. Parnia, Dr. Moody, Dr. Ring, Dr. Greyson — but this one by Dr. Kelly should reflect the data across the board in any example. Dr. Greyson’s book AFTER has more complete datasets.
In the book Divine Councils in the Afterlife, (2022) people using guided meditation report “everyone has a council” (“Judges”). That we all have guides, and that once we go to our life review, we have a council who oversee and help us examine our path. While many think of these individuals as judges (and see them in robes, or clothing composed of light) when one asks them direct questions, they all report that they “serve” on the council of the individual, are there to help or encourage the person through “all of their lifetimes.” Plato refers to them as “Judges” but one could equally refer to them as “wise elders.”)
“Meanwhile from the other opening in the sky, clean souls floated down, recounting beautiful sights and wondrous feelings. Those returning from underground appeared dirty, haggard, and tired, crying in despair when recounting their awful experiences, as each was required to pay a tenfold penalty for all the wicked deeds committed when alive. There were some, however, who could not be released from underground. Murderers, tyrants and other non-political criminals were doomed to remain by the exit of the underground, unable to escape.”
(Note: This account has influenced afterlife accounts for centuries. It’s not repeated in the data, research generally, but one individual has seen a group of “dirty, tired, haggard” individuals marching in step to some unknown location — (because they can be asked “where are you going?” and they don’t know.) The idea they were “unable to escape” is relative — after all, Er had just come from a battlefield of murdering or killing people, and clearly had “escaped” by returning.
Same goes for people who experience some kind of “hellish landscape” during their near death event. 1–3% of individuals of those who can recall events during their NDE recall something negative about it. But as noted in the examples where a person could revisit their experience, or where a person initially experiences something negative (in my 200 filmed session, 2 did, or 1%) when asked “So why are we here?” the visual disappeared and they continued “on their pathway home.”)
“After seven days in the meadow, the souls and Er were required to travel farther. After four days they reached a place where they could see a shaft of rainbow light brighter than any they had seen before.”
(Note: In the study cited above, “89% saw a light, 61% saw darkness, 43% had an out of body experience, and 28% had all three features.” Again, I’m using Dr. Kelly’s study from 2001 as an example of the data gathered for NDE case studies.
It’s often reported by people using hypnosis or meditation to access the flipside, a bright light that is brighter than any seen before, often described as a light the feels “familiar” and is “home” — often described when near the energy of that light as experiencing “unconditional love” or “Joy beyond measure.”)
“After another day’s travel they reached it. This was the Spindle of Necessity. (Indispensable) Several women, including Lady Necessity, her daughters, and the Sirens were present. The souls — except for Er — were then organized into rows and were each given a lottery token.”
(Note: The spindle of necessity — most commentaries about this assign Plato as the source of the concept; “a Greek model of the universe.” However, if his account is to be believed, it is Er who is reporting, not Plato. Plato writes “the Spindle… is shaped like the ones we know.” In other words, he’s not saying it’s there; but Er is.
Spindles appear in the Bible: “She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff” (Proverbs 31:19) In the Quran 21:33 and 36:40 “the sun, moon, night and day all float (orbit) in a falak (whorl or spiral). Spindles were used daily — spinning thread the way one might “spin fate.” The metaphor happens to fit with the ancient Greek concept of how there’s a spindle of thread that measures out one’s lifetime and journey.
Several women — “Muses” — were observed.
As reported in the multiple hypnosis cases (Dr. Wambach, Dr. Weiss, Michael Newton and the Newton Institute, the 200 I’ve filmed) everyone has a council (and every council member has a council) and the “Muses” as we’ve known them can serve on many councils for many people. (See Divine Councils for examples of different councils that serve the same function.)
I’ve interviewed people whose answer on behalf of “council members” who report having met me in someone else’s session, or interviewed council members who report they serve on “just a few” councils, or some who “appear on thousands of councils.” It’s reflexive of what quality they represent; “knowledge” “wisdom” “comedy” “music” etc. (Like the Muses) Each council member represents some quality the person seeing them has earned over previous lifetimes.)
“Then, in the order in which their lottery tokens were chosen, each soul was required to come forward to choose his or her next life.
Er recalled the first one to choose a new life: a man who had not known the terrors of the underground but had been rewarded in the sky, hastily chose a powerful dictatorship. Upon further inspection he realized that, among other atrocities, he was destined to eat his own children.
Er observed that this was often the case of those who had been through the path in the sky, whereas those who had been punished often chose a better life.
Many preferred a life different from their previous experience. Animals chose human lives while humans often chose the apparently easier lives of animals.”
(Note: in the film Hacking the Afterlife, (transcript is in the book ARCHITECTURE OF THE AFTERLIFE (2020) during a filmed hypnosis session, a therapist recalls the “life planning event” of his current lifetime while “visiting his council.”
He describes a giant auditorium — like the Hollywood Bowl — which is filled with people who will participate in his next lifetime. In the front row he said there were the members of his council, which were like the members of a university in charge of giving out PhD’s — while he pitched his dissertation of what his next lifetime would be, they peppered him with questions and arguments about that choice of a lifetime.
In the film FLIPSIDE a woman recalls her life selection process where she is offered a number of different journeys, all of which she turns down for various reasons. (Incarnation is optional). But eventually she settles upon a lifetime that will offer her the kind of spiritual advancement she’s looking for.
In each of her instances, they gave her a CGI like window of what that lifetime would be like, including being able to “step into the costume” briefly to see what that journey would really be like. It was interesting to see how many she turns down. While Er was reporting animals “choosing human lives” it is rarely reported in the research. Humans incarnate as humans, animals as animals.
In 200 sessions, thousands of accounts, I’ve come across one that included a person who could recall a previous lifetime as an animal, I included it because she could recall the lifetime previous to that one, which was another fox on another continent. Not saying it’s not possible, just rarely reported. Over 35% of the reports from the Newton Institute include memories of lifetimes off planet — in other worlds — so it’s theoretically possible he was observing life forms he considered animals but were not of this planet.)
“After this, each soul was assigned a guardian spirit to help him or her through their life.”
(Note: For fans of the Flipside research, this is exactly what is reported. Everyone is assigned a guide, and that guide watches over all of our lifetimes. (See “Flipside,” “It’s a Wonderful Afterlife,” Michael Newton’s “Journey of Souls” for examples.)
In the book Flipside, during my second of six hypnotherapy sessions, Scott (at lightbetweenlives.com) asked “Can your guide tell us how he became your guide?” At that moment I felt my conscious energy lift out of me and into my guide, where I began to speak in “his voice.” The paragraphs came so fast, furious that it took weeks to transcribe. He said that “after all of my own lifetimes, I graduated to become a guide, and my graduation gift was this soul; Richard.” (Meaning me.)
He then described how once assigned, we would converse about the kind of journey I wanted to experience. How all of my lifetimes would reflect the various colors on a canvas — sometimes after a lifetime we would stand back and say “Needs more emotion here (red)” or “needs more healing energy here (green).” At the end of all of my lifetimes, I too would graduate, but have this 3 dimensional portrait of a “magnificent” soul.)
“They passed under the throne of Lady Necessity, then traveled to the Plane of Oblivion, where the River of Forgetfulness (River Lethe) flowed. Each soul was required to drink some of the water, in varying quantities; again, Er only watched.”
“As they drank, each soul forgot everything. As they lay down at night to sleep each soul was lifted up into the night in various directions for rebirth, completing their journey. Er remembered nothing of the journey back to his body. He opened his eyes to find himself lying on the funeral pyre early in the morning, able to recall his journey through the afterlife.”
(Note: In essence, Er is reporting his journey into the afterlife just as thousands of others have done so. I recommend looking at thousands of accounts at IANDS.org, (I’ve spoken often at their venues, each one allows people to speak with candor (and without criticism) about their experiences.)
Plato’s account of this fellow who had a near death experience follows what many have had. There are individual differences, but those can be related to beliefs of the era, the myths of the region, and the teachings of what Plato and Socrates were trying to impart.
But in terms of comparing the “Myth of Er” to the published peer reviewed studies of near death experiences (see Dr. Greyson’s book AFTER, Dr. Kenneth Ring’s work, Dr. Ray Moody, Dr. Sam Parnia’s AWARE project and numerous other cites.) The scale used to measure NDE’s is named for Dr. Greyson. As he notes in AFTER, we can gather “objective data from subjective experiences” by asking the same questions to those who have experienced an event. (“The Handbook of Near-Death Experiences: Thirty Years of Investigation, 2009. Dr. Greyson, JM Holden, D James.) As Dr. Greyson notes in ‘‘Does Paranormal Perception Occur in Near-Death Experiences?” (2007) that Dr. Raymond Moody, whom Augustine labeled ‘‘the ‘founding father’ of near-death studies,’’ insisted that NDEs cannot provide “evidence of survival.”
He wrote, ‘‘I have never equated — and I never meant to equate — my reporting of so-called ‘near-death experiences’ with a declaration on my part of the unquestioned existence of ‘life after death’’’ (1999, p. 8). Kenneth Ring, the most prolific scholarly near death researcher, wrote that ‘‘we NDE researchers have been virtually unanimous in insisting that these experiences do not and cannot suggest the existence of an afterlife’’ (1990, p. 204).”
However the data, research or footage may not prove the existence of an afterlife; it certainly points to one. In terms of the thousands of case studies I’ve examined (Dr. Wambach, Dr. Weiss, Michael Newton, the 200 I’ve filmed) people consistently report “We exist prior to incarnation. We plan our lifetimes with the help and guidance of teachers, guides and council members (Judges). We plan accordingly, to bring a portion of our conscious energy to a lifetime and the rest stays home. That “home portion” is accessible by bypassing the filters on the brain (spoken of by Greyson on pg 128 of AFTER) that block “information not conducive to survival.”
As Dr. Greyson notes in “AFTER” his skepticism about data that points to consciousness outside the brain prevented him from seeing the data clearly.
In this case, it’s been 2500 years of people reporting that consciousness is not confined to the brain, even in this simple example of someone who recalled his near death event with enough clarity to compare it to other ones.
Greek Soldier 450 BC Riace Bronzes, Museo Nazionale Reggio Calabria
And now, for a closer look at the text: (my comments in BOLD, text underlined)
Plato — ER’s Myth — Republic
… “Tell me,” he said, [614b] “since there are not many things to which I would more gladly listen.”
“It is not, let me tell you,” said I, “the tale to Alcinous told that I shall unfold, but the tale of a warrior bold, Er, the son of Armenius, by race a Pamphylian. (footnotes to this text are in the link to the original translation at the eurosis.org file above)
He (Er) once upon a time was slain in battle, and when the corpses were taken up on the tenth day already decayed, was found intact, and having been brought home, at the moment of his funeral, on the twelfth day as he lay upon the pyre, revived, and after coming to life related what, he said, he had seen in the world beyond.
(Note: Fairly dramatic and a long time for a near death event. David Bennett drowned for 12 minutes in his account (Voyage of Purpose, 2011) and was studied extensively by the lab at UVA Medical school’s department of perceptual studies’ lab).
“He said that when his soul went forth from his body he journeyed with a great company [614c] and that they came to a mysterious region where there were two openings side by side in the earth, and above and over against them in the heaven two others, and that judges were sitting between these, and that after every judgement they bade the righteous journey to the right and upwards through the heaven with tokens attached to them in front of the judgement passed upon them, and the unjust to take the road to the left and downward, they too wearing behind signs [614d] of all that had befallen them, and that when he himself drew near they told him that he must be the messenger to mankind to tell them of that other world, and they charged him to give ear and to observe everything in the place.”
(Note: “Journey with a great company” — a lot of soldiers. He saw two groups, not sure how he understood which or who was righteous (were they wearing nametags?) as he doesn’t report how he heard that judgment. This detail sounds like it was added for context and to fit belief systems. However, the “Judges” — his council tells him directly “to bear witness and report” what he saw, which indicates they knew he was going to survive, didn’t belong there, and would return to his life in Greece. Sometimes reported in the NDE’s as a figure telling the person; “Go back. It’s not your time yet.” In this instance, it’s “Stick around. Take notes. Learn something.”)
“And so he said that here he saw, by each opening of heaven and earth, the souls departing after judgement had been passed upon them, while, by the other pair of openings, there came up from the one in the earth souls full of squalor and dust, and from the second there came down from heaven a second procession of souls clean and pure, [614e] and that those which arrived from time to time appeared to have come as it were from a long journey and gladly departed to the meadow and encamped there as at a festival, and acquaintances greeted one another, and those which came from the earth questioned the others about conditions up yonder, and those from heaven asked how it fared with those others.”
(Note: People under hypnosis (Michael Newton “Journey of Souls” Dr. Helen Wambach “Reliving Past Lives,” Galen Stoller “My Life after Life”) report a way-station of sorts where people are “sorted” or sent to other locations. Some report an instantaneous transport back “home” (their term) while others have spoken of “way stations” where they wait to be sorted into groups. In the 200 sessions I’ve filmed, I’ve yet to hear of one.
Fans of the book IT’S A WONDERFUL AFTERLIFE may recognize a similar account of seeing people “covered in dust” trudging along a passageway. At some point, the person recalling this experience, realized everyone was not aware of where they were going, so stopped, turned around into the tide of dusty, unhappy looking people. He then found himself in cathedral and at some point, when talking about “redemption” or “deliverance” to those inside, a light came overhead and he said their dust fell away, everything turned to “Technicolor” like the “Wizard of Oz.”)
“And they told their stories to one another, the one lamenting [615a] and wailing as they recalled how many and how dreadful things they had suffered and seen in their journey beneath the earth — it lasted a thousand years — while those from heaven related their delights and visions of a beauty beyond words.”
(Note: Two separate observations. One was that people were recounting a finite amount of time prior to incarnation again — or reincarnation — it is lasting “a thousand years.” As reported often, “25 years on earth feels like five or ten minutes to people on the flipside,” so a thousand years would be the equivalent of 400 minutes — about 7 hours to those on the flipside.
However, in Michael Newton’s “Journey of Souls” and the Newton Institute reports, they do include reports of people being “sent into isolation” away from all others for their inability to stop causing mayhem on the planet. That is — after so many mistakes, they are “suggested” to “sit in isolation” to contemplate all the negative actions they’ve caused. I’ve never run across someone in the 200 people I’ve filmed, with or without hypnosis who experienced this, but Michael Newton reports it. Perhaps this “isolation tank” is related to this account of a “thousand years underground.”)
To tell it all, Glaucon, would take all our time, but the sum, he said, was this.
“For all the wrongs they had ever done to anyone and all whom they had severally wronged they had paid the penalty in turn tenfold for each, and the measure of this was by periods of a hundred years each [615b] so that on the assumption that this was the length of human life the punishment might be ten times the crime; as for example that if anyone had been the cause of many deaths or had betrayed cities and armies and reduced them to slavery, or had been participant in any other iniquity, they might receive in requital pains tenfold for each of these wrongs, and again if any had done deeds of kindness and been just [615c] and holy men they might receive their due reward in the same measure; and other things not worthy of record he said of those who had just been born and lived but a short time; and he had still greater requitals to tell of piety and impiety towards the gods and parents and of self-slaughter.”
(Note: So here’s a formula that Plato gives for the amount of punishment doled out in these council reviews. People do report that there is a “Life review” where a perpetrator experiences first hand all of the trauma they’ve caused. So if one wanted to characterize that as “tenfold” an experience of pain, that would be a metaphor.
Also important, people often ignore these reports which include the “experience of all the joy one has caused in life.” Er mentions it in this life review: “Deeds of kindness.” Based on multiple accounts in the flipside research, the person reports feeling the joy of the actions of their lifetime and seeing the ripples of waves of causing joy that help everyone involved.)
For he said that he stood by when one was questioned by another ‘Where is Ardiaeus the Great?’
Now this Ardiaeos had been tyrant in a certain city of Pamphylia just a thousand years before that time and had put to death his old father [615d] and his elder brother, and had done many other unholy deeds, as was the report.
So he said that the one questioned replied, ‘He has not come,’ said he, ‘nor will he be likely to come here. “
(Note: It’s interesting that Er is observing a life review, when someone in that review asks about a someone who lived a thousand years earlier. It would be the equivalent of asking “So where’s Genghis Khan? Is he coming?” This also seems to be more about the history of a people recounting this event. Why would they wonder about someone who lived ten centuries earlier? In the 200 examples of filming people accessing a life review, no one has asked for “where are those other perpetrators?” (i.e. Pol Pot, Alexander the Great, Hitler, etc.)
‘For indeed this was one of the dreadful sights we beheld; when we were near the mouth and about to issue forth and all our other sufferings were ended, we suddenly caught sight of him and of others, the most of them, I may say, tyrants.
But there were some [615e] of private station, of those who had committed great crimes.
And when these supposed that at last they were about to go up and out, the mouth would not receive them, but it bellowed when anyone of the incurably wicked or of those who had not completed their punishment tried to come up.
And thereupon,’ he said, ‘savage men of fiery aspect who stood by and took note of the voice laid hold on them and bore them away.”
(Note: Men of a fiery aspect? It’s unusual — since we’re in an etheric place, there is no physicality, materials — and talking about the idea of “flames on people” — people being “flayed” — someone responsible for actions from a thousand years earlier. The “Harpies” were a Greek myth about those who were dragged off to hell for their crimes against humanity — or some version of it, and are included in a number of plays during the era. But “Harpies” are not mentioned, just that when someone mentions the name of the perpetrator Ardiaeus, he appears and Er is given a glimpse of “what happened to him.”)
“But Ardiaeus [616a] and others they bound hand and foot and head and flung down and flayed them and dragged them by the wayside, carding them on thorns and signifying to those who from time to time passed by for what cause they were borne away, and that they were to be hurled into Tartarus.
And then, though many and manifold dread things had befallen them, this fear exceeded all — lest each one should hear the voice when he tried to go up, and each went up most gladly when it had kept silence.”
(Note: Not sure what is being referred to here. Who’s voice is being referred to? Again — binding someone who is etheric by hand and foot? Flaying them, dragging them around, like being drawn and quartered? Not sure how that works. Tartarus was part of Greek myth for the lower parts of the underworld where the “Gods lock up their enemies.” (With what? Ropes? Chains?) Again — if we’re talking about a “place of solitude to understand why one acted badly” that is reported. But dragging, ripping, burning is not.)
“And the judgments and penalties were somewhat after this manner, [616b] and the blessings were their counterparts.
But when seven days had elapsed for each group in the meadow, they were required to rise up on the eighth and journey on, and they came in four days to a spot whence they discerned, extended from above throughout the heaven and the earth, a straight light like a pillar, most nearly resembling the rainbow, but brighter and purer.”
(Note: At this point, near death events, after life experiences, hypnotherapy sessions and guided meditation converge. The reports of seeing, experiencing, being part of a rainbow — where all light and colors converge is often reported. As noted in the NDE Reports cited above, 89% saw a light during their NDE.)
To this they came [616c] after going forward a day’s journey, and they saw there at the middle of the light the extremities of its fastenings stretched from heaven; for this light was the girdle of the heavens like the under-girders of triremes, holding together in like manner the entire revolving vault.
And from the extremities was stretched the spindle of Necessity , through which all the orbits turned.
“Its staff and its hook were made of adamant, (diamond) and the whorl of these and other kinds was commingled. And the nature of the whorl (wheel or spiral) was this: [616d] Its shape was that of those in our world, but from his description we must conceive it to be as if in one great whorl, hollow and scooped out, there lay enclosed, right through, another like it but smaller, fitting into it as boxes that fit into one another, (one spiral within another) and in like manner another, a third, and a fourth, and four others, for there were eight of the whorls in all, lying within one another, [616e] showing their rims as circles from above and forming the continuous back of a single whorl about the shaft, which was driven home through the middle of the eighth.”
(Note: These spirals, or “whorls” are often reported. They were reported in FLIPSIDE, the second hypnotherapy session I filmed, where the subject saw these “geometric shapes” that were traveling around her, then later in a classroom on the flipside where the geometric shapes where examined and reported to be fractals — that is when one looks inside of them, they contain continuing mathematical constructs — form constants.
Then in IT’S A WONDERFUL AFTERLIFE and ARCHITECTURE OF THE AFTERLIFE, people who see these objects in their Akashic library are asked to examine and define them.
Reportedly they contain all the information from a previous lifetimes — they exist as geometric shapes in our own Akashic library, they function as “ball bearings” for each of our lifetimes (see FLIPSIDE the book or film) and they retain the fundamental information of our existence.) In Er’s account the “spirals are within the spirals.” In this case, he notes 8 spirals (whorls) which may be later identified as individuals appearing as spirals.)
“Now the first and outmost whorl had the broadest circular rim, that of the sixth was second, and third was that of the fourth, and fourth was that of the eighth, fifth that of the seventh, sixth that of the fifth, seventh that of the third, eighth that of the second; and that of the greatest was spangled, that of the seventh brightest, that of the eighth [617a] took its color from the seventh, which shone upon it.”
“The colors of the second and fifth were like one another and more yellow than the two former. The third had the whitest color, and the fourth was of a slightly ruddy hue; the sixth was second in whiteness.”
(Note: Very specific details about the frequency, tone and timbre of each color. Color, needless to repeat, is frequency. Each distinct color represents a different frequency, but also represents a metaphor.
People report seeing various colors on the flipside (see Michael Newton’s DESTINY OF SOULS) where people report each color representing a particular quality. The lighter colors are “younger” or “newer” qualities, the middle colors represent healing (green) healing energy (blue, gold) wisdom (yellow, gold) etc. The darker (purple) colors reportedly represent wisdom, age.
People report seeing these colors when asked “are there any colors associated with the person you are seeing?” When people describe their council members, they often describe a white color with streaks of other vibrating colors inside — representing these different qualities.
Color is frequency, light is composed of all colors, we too are colors and frequency, we too are light. (My state winning science project “The Psychology and Therapy of Color (1967) had J. Allen Hynek as my mentor who was teaching at Northwestern.) Rainbows represent the spectrum, but are also repeated in numerous out of body experiences, or in accounts of visiting the flipside via hypnosis, or using guided meditation.
From the NDE study cited above: “One potentially important finding in this study was the association between seeing an unusual light and seeing a deceased person: 89% of the participants seeing deceased persons also reported seeing a bright light.”)
“The staff turned as a whole in a circle with the same movement, but within the whole as it revolved the seven inner circles revolved gently in the opposite direction to the whole, and of these seven the eighth moved most swiftly, [617b] and next and together with one another the seventh, sixth and fifth; and third in swiftness, as it appeared to them, moved the fourth with returns upon itself, and fourth the third and fifth the second.
And the spindle turned on the knees of Necessity, and up above on each of the rims of the circles a Siren stood, borne around in its revolution and uttering one sound, one note, and from all the eight there was the concord of a single harmony.”
(Note: This visual metaphor is different for each person. Some see “trees” as in a “tree of life” seeing each branch filled with individuals, teachers, core members, the trunk filled with many individuals, the upper branches with teachers, elders etc.
Some see edifices or giant crystal cities where each mental construct is represented by another structure. Often these Divine Councils meet in a structure either “outside in space” or “outside in a natural grove” or “inside in a cathedral like structure.”
So this “Spindle of Necessity” is a term that meant something to Plato — a structural vision perhaps? But it would be reflexive of whoever is seeing a structure, as we all experience them from our own perspective. However it follows the concept of the fates “spinning our lives.”)
“And there were another three [617c] who sat round about at equal intervals, each one on her throne, the Fates , daughters of Necessity, clad in white vestments with filleted heads, (headbands) Lachesis, and Clotho, and Atropos, who sang in unison with the music of the Sirens, Lachesis singing the things that were, Clotho the things that are, and Atropos the things that are to be.”
The Three Fates by Paul Thumann, 19th century
(Note: This appears to be the first account of someone visiting their council. I always suspected that the reports of Muses would be related to individual council members. People sometimes report seeing relatives on their council, sometimes see a light, or a being that normally doesn’t incarnate as we would recognize them, but for the most part they see men or women of different ages.
When one asks them “What do you represent on this person’s council?” They will answer the questions. In this case, they are being identified as the “Moirai” — often referred to in English at the “Three Fates” — Clotho (the spinner) Lechesis (the allotter) and Atropos (the unturnable).
When examining this report, we can either assume that Plato was “looking for something like this” that followed the religion — or it could be literally the first account of the three of them. Either way, they are “three mediums” in a sense, one is telling us what happened, one is telling us what is happening, and the other is telling us “likely outcomes” since the future is not set, but there are likely outcomes that will occur based on how everything appears to be.
In terms of the Divine Councils that I’ve interviewed, a more Council centric term for “Lachesis” would be “history” (things that were) “Clotho” — wisdom based on how things are, and for Atropos, “spiritual journey” — meaning there’s been no individual who said they were “predicting the future” but a number who saw the overall vision of a person’s journey. )
“And Clotho with the touch of her right hand helped to turn the outer circumference of the spindle, pausing from time to time.
Atropos with her left hand in like manner helped to turn the inner circles, and Lachesis [617d] alternately with either hand lent a hand to each.”
“Now when they arrived they were straight-way bidden to go before Lachesis, and then a certain prophet first marshalled them in orderly intervals, and thereupon took from the lap of Lachesis lots and patterns of lives and went up to a lofty platform and spoke, ‘This is the word of Lachesis, the maiden daughter of Necessity, “Souls that live for a day , now is the beginning of another cycle of mortal generation where birth is the beacon of death.” [617e]
“No divinity shall cast lots for you, but you shall choose your own deity.”
“Let him to whom falls the first lot first select a life to which he shall cleave of necessity.”
“But virtue has no master over her, and each shall have more or less of her as he honors her or does her despite.”
“The blame is his who chooses: God is blameless.”
(Note: Each of these pronouncements, like a person opening up fortune cookies and reading the sayings on them, is related to how incarnation works, how it reportedly works, and how the data, research and footage claim it works.
Let’s unpack these pronouncements: “Souls that Live for a day, now is the beginning of another cycle” meaning there’s a cycle of life and death in every lifetime, even for those that only life for a brief moment (die after being born). To look at that as just the end or beginning of another cycle, and not the extinction of life.
“No Divinity shall cast lots for you, but you shall choose your own deity.”
That’s heretical to nearly all of earth’s religious belief systems. We choose the deity we are going to follow — they don’t choose us. We choose the lifetime we’re going to lead — it isn’t chosen for us. It is consistently what people report in the Flipside research.
“Let him to whom falls the first lot, first select a life to which he shall cleave of necessity.”
Another consistent reflection of what people say using guided meditation, under hypnosis or using mediumship. That we SELECT OUR LIFETIME based on necessity — cleave means “to split along a natural line or grain of wood” — meaning that is “meant for us to have.” We CHOOSE THE LIFETIME we are meant to have. This reported from a near death experience from 2500 years ago.
“But virtue has no master over her, and each shall have more or less of her as he honors her or does her despite.”
Arete is the Goddess of virtue, excellence, goodness and valor. Meaning, “You get out of your lifetime what you put into it — if you are virtuous, excellent, good, or have valor — “does her despite” means “in spite of” or despite not honoring what is good, excellent, virtuous. Also repeated in the research — you choose a lifetime based on previous adventures, the word karma means “action or energy” in Sanskrit, not sin or baggage as it’s come to be known — so if one choose a lifetime that includes valor, virtue, etc — one can only get out of it as much as they put in.
“The blame is his who chooses: God is blameless.”
Another consistent reference to what people claim about the journey — that we exist prior to incarnation, that we plan our journey with the help and guidance of teachers, guides or council members, but ultimately we are the one who agrees to participate, who volunteers to come here, who offers to help someone else — and there’s no one to blame or give credit to other than oneself, who agreed, who actually had to agree in order to incarnate in the first place.
I.e. “Don’t blame God for one’s agreement, one’s choice, one’s inability to navigate what they thought they could.” In terms of “God” — in the book IT’S A WONDERFUL AFTERLIFE, a guide is asked “What or who is God?” The librarian replies “God is beyond the capacity of the human brain to comprehend; it’s not physically possible to do so, however one can experience God by opening their heart to everyone and all things.”
By that definition God is not separate or thing or an individual — but everything that is, whether one wants to call that consciousness or unconditional love. It all is interconnected in terms of the research and footage of people talking about the experience of epiphany of experiencing God.)
“So saying, the prophet flung the lots out among them all, and each took up the lot that fell by his side, except himself; him they did not permit.
(Note: Because Er was on his way home; “it’s not your time yet.” This idea of lots was perhaps more prevalent or popular in the era, in today’s parlance it might be observing that people were tapped on the head by a wand or given a green light to return home.)
And whoever took up a lot saw plainly what number he had drawn. [618a]
And after this again the prophet placed the patterns of lives before them on the ground, far more numerous than the assembly.
They were of every variety, for there were lives of all kinds of animals and all sorts of human lives, for there were tyrannies among them, some uninterrupted till the end and others destroyed midway and issuing in penuries and exiles and beggaries; and there were lives of men of repute for their forms and beauty and bodily strength otherwise [618b] and prowess and the high birth and the virtues of their ancestors, and others of ill repute in the same things, and similarly of women.
(Note: In terms of the life planning or “life review” part of the experience, these events are often reported. That is — a person is having their life review in a giant auditorium, and everyone in the audience can see and experience everything that is being discussed onstage. To go over all of the lifetimes en masse is a bit unusual. But the examples are all included in the research.)
“But there was no determination of the quality of soul, because the choice of a different life inevitably determined a different character.”
Note: This is hard for many to comprehend. That there was no “determination of the quality of soul, because (each) choice of a different life determined a different character.” That is — if a person chose to examine the life of a thief, the life of a victim, the life of a soldier, the life of a monk, each one of those includes certain parameters unique to that journey. People are not “judged aversely” because they volunteered to experience that particular journey.
“But all other things were commingled with one another and with wealth and poverty and sickness and health and the intermediate conditions. –
And there, dear Glaucon, it appears, is the supreme hazard for a man. [618c]
And this is the chief reason why it should be our main concern that each of us, neglecting all other studies, should seek after and study this thing — if in any way he may be able to learn of and discover the man who will give him the ability and the knowledge to distinguish the life that is good from that which is bad, and always and everywhere to choose the best that the conditions allow.
And, taking into account all the things of which we have spoken and estimating the effect on the goodness of his life of their conjunction or their severance, to know how beauty commingled with poverty or wealth and combined with [618d] what habit of soul operates for good or for evil.
And what are the effects of high and low birth and private station and office and strength and weakness and quickness of apprehension and dullness and all similar natural and acquired habits of the soul, when blended and combined with one another, so that with consideration of all these things he will be able to make a reasoned choice between the better and the worse life, [618e] with his eyes fixed on the nature of his soul, naming the worse life that which will tend to make it more unjust and the better that which will make it more just.
(Note: Here the narrative clearly shifts from what Er experienced, saw on the flipside, to what Plato is interpreting — the idea of a “high” or “low birth” — other than trying to point out that we can include all of these observations in our judgment of a person’s journey. Instead of condemning someone for their immediate actions, to see that their circumstances (that were agreed upon prior) they were born into, affect good behavior and bad actions.)
“But all other considerations he will dismiss, for we have seen that this is the best choice, [619a] both for life and death.”
“And a man must take with him to the house of death an adamantine faith in this, that even there he may be undazzled by riches and similar trumpery, and may not precipitate himself into tyrannies and similar doings and so work many evils past cure and suffer still greater himself, but may know how always to choose in such things the life that is seated in the mean and shun the excess in either direction, both in this world so far as may be and in all the life to come; [619b] for this is the greatest happiness for man.”
“And at that time also the messenger from that other world reported that the prophet spoke thus: ‘Even for him who comes forward last, if he make his choice wisely and lives strenuously, there is reserved an acceptable life, no evil one.”
“Let not the foremost in the choice be heedless nor the last be discouraged.”
(Note: Here the narrative returns to what Er has reported. That he heard a guide, or the lead council member state “For him who comes forward last (volunteers at the end of the day) if he makes his choice wisely and lives strenuously, there is reserved an acceptable life, no (Not an) evil one.” It also echoes the Beatitudes: “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. Blessed are the Merciful who will receive mercy. … Judge not that you be not judged.”)
“When the prophet had thus spoken he said that the drawer of the first lot at once sprang to seize the greatest tyranny, and that in his folly and greed he chose it [619c] without sufficient examination, and failed to observe that it involved the fate of eating his own children, and other horrors, and that when he inspected it at leisure he beat his breast and bewailed his choice, not abiding by the forewarning of the prophet.”
(Note: A rather dramatic error this person demonstrates. Er is watching someone choose a lifetime, almost like winning the lottery but then sees the consequence of that choice. In terms of Greek theater, he could be speaking about the House of Atreus, which had a similar fate when Atreus tricked Thyestes into eating his sons; he was forced into exile for eating human flesh.)
“For he did not blame himself for his woes, but fortune and the gods and anything except himself.”
“He was one of those who had come down from heaven, a man who had lived in a well-ordered polity in his former existence, [619d] participating in virtue by habit and not by philosophy; and one may perhaps say that a majority of those who were thus caught were of the company that had come from heaven, inasmuch as they were unexercised in suffering.”
(Note: In essence, Er is saying that this fellow and others, chose a difficult path, were unused to suffering, because they’d spent too much time away from earth. “Unexercised in suffering” meaning they’d forgotten how hard it was to incarnate and go through what humans go through. Plus this fellow had a “well ordered” previous lifetime, was “virtuous by habit,” and chose an inopportune journey because of his ignorance (incomplete awareness) of how things work on the planet.
However, that might be an opinion being expressed here — as Er wouldn’t be aware of this fellow’s previous lifetimes, and it would be Plato who would chastise the fellow for “falling into the habit of being virtuous” instead of working hard for it as he espoused.)
“But the most of those who came up from the earth, since they had themselves suffered and seen the sufferings of others, did not make their choice precipitately.”
“For which reason also there was an interchange of good and evil for most of the souls, as well as because of the chances of the lot.”
(Note: Everyone volunteers. It’s required in order to make it to the planet. The idea that people were making bad choices or mistakes “precipitately” is a human centric opinion. In the research, people report choosing more difficult lifetimes because they are “older, wiser” individuals who claim they can “handle them” for the benefit of others.)
“Yet if at each return to the life of this world [619e] a man loved wisdom sanely, and the lot of his choice did not fall out among the last, we may venture to affirm, from what was reported thence, that not only will he be happy here but that the path of his journey thither and the return to this world will not be underground and rough but smooth and through the heavens.”
“For he said that it was a sight worth seeing to observe how the several souls selected their lives.” [620a]
“He said it was a strange, pitiful, and ridiculous spectacle, as the choice was determined for the most part by the habits of their former lives.”
(Note: This is an extensive review of the life planning session. As noted in the film FLIPSIDE and HACKING THE AFTERLIFE, people can recall how they planned or chose their lifetimes, and how they opted out, turned down or suggested different ones. The idea that it was a “ridiculous spectacle” (was that Er’s opinion, or Plato’s?) of people choosing lifetimes because for the most part, their guides, teachers, council members were pointing out that their choices were dictated by their previous journeys.
That is the case in many reports — people are told by their guides, “You need to do this kind of life because that’s what you need to learn” and many trust their guides to give them the best lifetime that will take them the furthest spiritually.
But the idea that it was “pitiful” comes from the human centric idea of seeing that people’s life choices were directly related to previous lifetimes — for example a soldier might be a victim of war, a king might become a servant, a monk might become a satyr, a murderer might become a victim — the idea of “what goes around comes around.”
However, as noted, people do report being able to “turn down” “opt out” or otherwise say no to a suggestion. For the most part we trust those guides who have watched over all of our lifetimes to make a good suggestion.)
“He saw the soul that had been Orpheus’, he said, selecting the life of a swan, because from hatred of the tribe of women, owing to his death at their hands, it was unwilling to be conceived and born of a woman.”
(Note: If that’s accurate, it would take a long time for the “O man” to return.)
“He saw the soul of Thamyras choosing the life of a nightingale; and he saw a swan changing to the choice of the life of man, and similarly other musical animals. [620b]
The soul that drew the twentieth lot chose the life of a lion; it was the soul of Ajax, the son of Telamon, which, because it remembered the adjudication of the arms of Achilles, was unwilling to become a man.”
(Note: Thamyris was a musician, according to his myth challenged the muses to a singing competition (Britain’s Got Talent?) and the winner got to sleep with all the muses. Ajax was famous for treachery, and took his own life. Unwilling to become a man is pretty funny, because obviously there are other options.)
“The next, the soul of Agamemnon, likewise from hatred of the human race because of its sufferings, substituted the life of an eagle.
Drawing one of the middle lots the soul of Atalanta caught sight of the great honors attached to an athlete’s life and could not pass them by but snatched at them. [620c]
After her, he said, he saw the soul of Epeius, the son of Panopeus, entering into the nature of an arts and crafts woman. Far off in the rear he saw the soul of the buffoon Thersites clothing itself in the body of an ape.”
(Note: Agamemnon, mythical King was a Trojan War hero who overthrew his uncle in Mycaenae. People don’t report choosing lives of animals, unless the animals agree to it — they have their own councils, teachers, guides. (Could this be a reference to Roman Eagle in the future?)
Seeing Epeius return as a woman is often reported. People often report choosing between either sexes and sometimes are more connected to one or the other. Atalanta was a great athlete; Thersites, who was reportedly a coward in the Trojan war. This passage is reminiscent of Dante’s observations about local politicians he knew who were suffering in the afterlife.)
“And it fell out that the soul of Odysseus drew the last lot of all and came to make its choice, and, from memory of its former toils having flung away ambition, went about for a long time in quest of the life of an ordinary citizen who minded his own business, and with difficulty found it lying in some corner disregarded by the others, [620d] and upon seeing it said that it would have done the same had it drawn the first lot, and chose it gladly.”
(Note: This is a fun observation, and I would argue is contrary to what people might assume one would see in the afterlife.
The famous Odysseus, one of the greatest warriors of myth, chooses to have an ordinary life minding his own business. This is often reported when speaking to people on the flipside about previous lifetimes (via mediums) or speaking to people who recall previous lifetimes (through hypnosis or meditation.) People who were extremely famous in their most recent lifetime recall being “voiceless” in a previous one — that their choice was a reaction to be able to speak to others.
In a conversation with a great composer, he said that his “favorite incarnation” was one as a farmer, not the famed life as a composer, because he said “tending to my crops and living in a forest was a symphony of its own, and much more pleasing to me, a much happier existence.” The idea that one would continue to choose lifetimes of fame is not in the research, what people report is preferring a simple life in nature to one that we all recall. And this is EXACTLY reported the same in this account.)
“And in like manner, of the other beasts some entered into men and into one another, the unjust into wild creatures, the just transformed to tame, and there was every kind of mixture and combination.”
(Note: Again, it’s not in the research or data or footage that people interchange as animals. What is in the footage are interviews with animals on the flipside who report “Animals understand how incarnation works, but humans do not.” Animals reportedly can change their journey into other species as much as they want. But humans for the most part return as humans. However, what’s not in Er’s report, but is in the data, is that 35% of the reports from the Newton Institute include lifetimes off planet.
So if he was seeing people choosing to be a being on another planet, that’s entirely possible that the beings he was seeing were not humans. In the book MY LIFE AFTER LIFE by Galen Stoller (Galen writes the foreword to IT’S A WONDERFUL AFTERLIFE book two from the flipside) he talks about knowing a person who normally incarnates on another planet, who is allowed to incarnate as a dog. He describes that process, the being going to class to learn about the pitfalls of the upcoming adventure, and at the end of the class, graduating by going into a portal.)
“But when, to conclude, all the souls had chosen their lives in the order of their lots, they were marshalled and went before Lachesis.
And she sent with each, [620e] as the guardian of his life and the fulfiller of his choice, the genius that he had chosen, and this divinity led the soul first to Clotho, under her hand and her turning of the spindle to ratify the destiny of his lot and choice; and after contact with her the genius again led the soul to the spinning of Atropos to make the web of its destiny irreversible, and then without a backward look it passed beneath the throne of Necessity. [621a]”
(Note: The members of one’s council go over with the person about to be incarnated what their next journey is going to accomplish.)
“And after it had passed through that, when the others also had passed, they all journeyed to the Plain of Oblivion , through a terrible and stifling heat, for it was bare of trees and all plants, and there they camped at eventide by the River of Forgetfulness, whose waters no vessel can contain.
They were all required to drink a measure of the water, and those who were not saved by their good sense drank more than the measure, and each one as he drank forgot all things. [621b] And after they had fallen asleep and it was the middle of the night, there was a sound of thunder and a quaking of the earth, and they were suddenly wafted thence, one this way, one that, upward to their birth like shooting stars.”
(Note: In asking people to describe their journey after their passing, people sometimes describe flying, floating, being moved like magnets back to another realm, which they refer to as “back home.” In one instance in the book ARCHITECTURE OF THE AFTERLIFE, a person was accessing their friend who had died recently. I asked her to ask him what the journey was like, and he described something out of a Greek myth, going to the river Lethe, boarding a boat, paying the boatman, etc. The woman didn’t know anything about this myth, but I was aware of it, and asked if we could speak directly to the boatman.
And I asked him about his awareness that life goes on, that while people thought his trip was a one way trip, he was aware of the fact that no one dies, that they think they’re heading over to a shore they cannot return from — but often do.
Again — this idea the Mnemosyne, the Goddess of Memory stands by with a drink of water to help one forget or remember, whether they are coming or going. Clearly a metaphor for what occurs. The brain has filters that block our memories of previous lifetimes — why? It appears to be related to “blocking information not conducive to survival.”
One could argue, the way Stanely Kubrick did in “2001 A Space Odyssey” that the filters on the brain have to be in place in order for humans to progress, however it’s possible to bypass or influence those filters to affect a change in them. (As does Barbie which hilariously Greta Gerwig used the original “2001” plates in from the opening sequence of the apes becoming sentient — to dolls becoming aware that there were no older dolls to play with.)
We drink to forget — and then when we leave the stage, we’re given a drink to remember all of them.
As reported, people bring a portion of conscious energy to a lifetime, the rest stays home. When the curtain falls, the portion on stage “returns home” and instantly recalls why they chose the play, chose the actors, chose the journey they were on. But coming back, they’ve got to forget all of that onstage — because the human brain won’t allow access to it.
However, as noted, some children don’t have those filters until the 8th year. Some elderly lose them — and anyone can bypass them during a near death event, out of body experience, using hallucinogens, during dreams — but in a more directed fashion using hypnotherapy, mediumship or guided meditation. Anyone can. Not everyone wants to.)
“Er himself, he said, was not allowed to drink of the water, yet how and in what way he returned to the body he said he did not know, but suddenly recovering his sight he saw himself at dawn lying on the funeral pyre.”
(Note: During the Victorian era people put air holes into coffins just in case. Apparently it’s not that uncommon to wake up in the morgue — but the idea here is to not “die on the pyre” when they’re torching one’s body.)
“And so, Glaucon, the tale was saved, as the saying is, and was not lost. [621c] And it will save us if we believe it, and we shall safely cross the River of Lethe, and keep our soul unspotted from the world.”
“But if we are guided by me we shall believe that the soul is immortal and capable of enduring all extremes of good and evil, and so we shall hold ever to the upward way and pursue righteousness with wisdom always and ever, that we may be dear to ourselves and to the gods both during our sojourn here and when we receive our reward, [621d] as the victors in the games go about to gather in theirs.”
“And thus both here and in that journey of a thousand years, whereof I have told you, we shall fare well.”
(Note: Indeed. Here we are two thousand five hundred years after Plato reported this event, pointing out how accurate it is in terms of data, research and footage. Who knew?
Based on the data, research and footage it is directly in line with the folks who’ve had near death events, directly in line with those who access the life selection or life review during an NDE or during a guided meditation, is directly in line with what people report using hypnosis (see Dr. Helen Wambach’s 2750 cases, Dr. Brian Weiss and his 4000 cases, or Michael Newton and the Newton Institute’s 7000 reports, or the documentaries FLIPSIDE or HACKING THE AFTERLIFE on Gaia, where I give filmed examples from their files.)
I ran across this description of the “Myth of Er” recently, and am surprised, pleased, happy to report that it’s pretty much word for word what the past fifteen years of research has revealed.
Finally, some observations that I would include as “hearsay” because they came through speaking with a medium (Jennifer Shaffer who works with law enforcement agencies nationwide on missing person cases,) we’ve been meeting up weekly for eight years having conversations with people “off stage.” (Our podcast can be found at HackingTheAfterlife.com or MartiniZone.com)
In terms of the research into the Flipside, having been filming people accessing this information for the past fifteen years, occasionally an unusual guest pops up for our ongoing conversations.
In this case, it was an interview we did with “Socrates.”
As I’m fond of saying “If they existed on the planet, then they’re available.”
Jennifer Shaffer in her work with law enforcement is able to access information by asking for a first name. In this case, I asked her for this fellow who had been a teacher in Greece. Socrates. She was familiar with his name but not his story.
One of the hallmarks of the research is that people report we bring a portion of our conscious energy and the rest stays home. That home portion — is always home. So even while we are incarnated, or reincarnated, or otherwise occupied, a portion of our conscious energy is always “back home.”
And hence, is available for discussion.
It’s how the book THE GREATEST STORY NEVER TOLD AS TOLD BY JESUS AND THOSE WHO KNEW HIM came about. People who claimed to be seeing, hearing from Jesus, or someone they identified as Jesus, and to be able to answer questions put directly to this individual who self identifies as Jesus — if only to compare the contents of what his (or their) replies are.
Unusually, despite not knowing many of these individuals I’m speaking with for the first time, or that come from varied backgrounds of belief, or disbelief, atheists, skeptics — etc — when people “run into Jesus during hypnosis, mediumship or guided meditation” the Jesus they run into tells an alternate story of his lifetime, one that is not the same as the one that has been reported, celebrated for centuries.
I’ve asked repeatedly “Why are you telling this alternate story of your lifetime now?” and the answer has been repeated; “It’s not alternate if it’s true.”
Hard to argue with the fellow.
But in that vein, recently someone was asking about the “first near death event” — and when that might have happened.
Near death experiences have been happening since humans began showing up on the planet. The data from the reports, (see Dr. E Kelly’s paper regarding 2000 of them via the lab at UVA, she reports 70% of the people who had them had an experience they recall, and 11% of those saw a person during their event that they identified as “Jesus.”)
In that vein, one day I dialed up Socrates.
I didn’t know if we would get anyone or anywhere; but in the 8 years I’ve been filming interactions with different mediums, including Jennifer Shaffer (JenniferShaffer.com) here in Manhattan Beach, when I ask “is so and so available?” she will tell me; “No.” “I’m not getting anything.” Or “Yes.”
In this case, she currently identified this “ancient story teller” — not someone she had studied in life, but was aware of his significance. As I like to do, I started off with a heretical question, as sometimes they yield the most fruit.
“What’s your opinion of Plato and what he had to say in your name?”
Socrates replied (Jennifer is replying and saying what is coming to her, sometimes visually, sometimes aurally, sometimes as a sensation — I know she works with law enforcement agencies daily, so I know how effective she can be) “Plato was exaggerating.”
I asked him to clarify.
He said “That whole speech about the poison was made up.”
I asked Jennifer if she was aware of what he was talking about. She was not. She repeated; “He’s saying that Plato made a lot of things up.”
I asked if Plato existed, were the reports some kind of figment of a writer’s imagination?
He said “He existed, was a student, but what he reported I said was exaggerated. More about him than me. He was not accurate.”
I asked him to clarify — what did happen?
He said he was “poisoned by the powers that be, in retaliation to public talks he gave that challenged their authority, but it was strictly their choice to shut him up for speaking aloud against them. And the hemlock did kill him –but he had no time to give a long and glorious speech about it to a classroom of his students” (or from prison).
“All of that was made up by Plato.”
Kind of a splash of cold water if one is allowing that it’s possible that we can communicate with Socrates — or with anyone on the flipside. But for him to come forward and give this specific detail about something the medium, Jennifer was not aware of — it’s really pretty funny.
So the story of Plato’s about a soldier who had a near death experience may also need to be taken with a grain of salt. Perhaps he’s added more than the narrative suggested. Either way, it’s one of the first NDE’s every reported, and as noted above, there are remarkable similarities to the data, research and footage of people talking about their experiences 2500 years later. Examples are in the footage FLIPSIDE, TALKING TO BILL PAXTON and HACKING THE AFTERLIFE on Gaia.
ADDENDUM: Funny, the “three fates” are often reported in visits to one’s council. They don’t self identify as such (past, present, future) but when asked to describe their role they use other terms; “I represent history” or “I represent spirituality” or “I represent wisdom.” In like form, the three fates are depicted in “A Christmas Carol” by Dickens. It’s funny to realize that these archetypes are often reported in the guided meditation sessions where people are able to converse with their “council members. (See DIVINE COUNCILS IN THE AFTERLIFE for examples.) DivineCouncils.com
Richard Martini is a filmmaker and author. He’s written and or directed 9 theatrical released feature films, a number of documentaries and eleven books about the Afterlife. Each of his kindles has gone to #1 in their genre after his appearances on Coast to Coast with George Noory.
For more information, see the podcast at HackingTheAfterlife.com, the videos at MartiniZone.com, the blog is at RichMartini.com or the documentaries FLIPSIDE, TALKING TO BILL PAXTON or HACKING THE AFTERLIFE on Gaia (Amazon Prime)
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