Unconditional Love and Rose Petals from Mary

I write often about the flipside on the Quora website. 

                Speaking words of wisdom... let it be. (quoting Paul's mom)

I "administer" a forum called "Hacking the Afterlife" and try to limit my answers/comments/observations to questions based on the research or my own personal experiences. (In general I don't post comments that refer to other books or philosophies - after all, I'm taking the time to respond to these comments based on my books, and if I responded to comments on other people's books I'd have no time to do anything.

That being said, over 14 million folks have "viewed my posts."  I don't buy into metrics in general ("How many likes did you get? How many subscribers can I hire in India?") But it is the lingua franca of our planet - I can only say, if one person has been helped by something I've written, I'm happy to have done so.

The most pushback I get in comments comes from the left and right wings of the spiritual spectrum. (Not political.  There are people adamant and furious on all levels these days, even "middle of the roaders.")  But as an observation, the angry posts are equal from the "religious believers" to the "science non believers."  I'm an equal opportunity heretic.

A scientist might weigh in with "BS! This is all nonsense and woo woo!" (I think it's hilarious that a scientist would opt to use a phrase that was a drink in Boston in the 1600's. "Woo" is still served at the Wayside Inn, and for those who know it, can attest to being in "slumberland" when they try it.)

So "Woo woo" aside, (or as I call it "Major woo") they're offended by the research. (And use sandbox terms to describe their umbrage.) 

I often cite the scientists who have touched upon the same concepts ("is consciousness produced by the brain?" by Dr. Greyson on YouTube is a good place to start) but when I cite Ed and Emily Kelly PhD's "Irreducible Mind," David Presti PhD's "Mind Beyond Brain" the 1500 cases of reincarnation being studied by Dr. Jim Tucker ("Return to Life") or the 100 peer reviewed studies by Dr. Greyson - they don't want to hear that either. "It's all woo!"

Then I have the religious folks who assume that I must be citing Satan or a demon, or want to argue that the Good Book is sacrosanct in all it's fear and vitriol. That lightning is about to smack me upside the head or that I'm "cheating myself out of "heaven"" by denying its existence.

For the record there too - I don't deny its existence. It exists. It's just not referred to as "heaven" in the research. 

People refer to it as "home."  That's consistent. In all the 100 cases I've filmed, 50 with the help of hypnotherapists, people call it the same danged thing. Not heaven. Home. And they claim that the feeling of "unconditional love" exists there throughout.  

Scientists will argue that's projection, or someone read about it and is imagining it or is "cryptomnesia" - something they read or saw before. 

The problem with that idea is that unconditional love doesn't exist on the planet. 

Between pets and owners sometimes, between family members sometimes, but for the most part it's not from the pulpit (they preach "conditional love" - if you follow my rules, or obey, you can be loved) it's not from TV or novels ("Love lost" is the theme) As a form of cryptomnesia, people can't be "remembering a concept" that has never been expressed on the planet. (Or so rarely that it's hard to conceive.) 

However I'm happy to state that everyone I've mentioned the term to nods in agreement. 

They often "say it" while under deep hypnosis, say it without hypnosis recalling a near death event - or say it about a person they fell in love with at "first sight." "I felt unconditionally loved."  I challenge anyone to point to any book, movie or zeitgeist experience that uses the term. (Aside from my own.)

In "It's a Wonderful Afterlife" one guide said "God is beyond the capacity of the human brain to comprehend. It's not physically possible. However you can experience God by opening your heart to everyone and all things."  

Later, transcribing this sentence (said to a hypnotherapist on camera) I tried to think of where this jaded movie executive might have heard of that concept before. "Unconditional love" is opening one's heart to everyone and all things. It just doesn't exist on the planet (outside of monks, a few lamas, and maybe my grandmother Dionisia Lusardi Martini.) Worth observing "everyone knows what I'm talking about even though no one has heard the concept before."

But this post is about a transcription I ran into yesterday.  

It was an interview I did with the medium Kimberly Babcock.  Kimberly was visiting Los Angeles three years ago, and Dr. Elisa Medhus, who maintains the "Channeling Erik" website where she has ongoing conversations with her son on the flipside, asked if I would meet her as they were going to begin working together.

Kimberly's book is here:

I brought my camera, but was forced to film in a restaurant in West Hollywood as I had not planned our meeting well. Some of that footage is in the film "Talking to Bill Paxton" on Gaia, and in it Kimberly demonstrates her amazing ability to report what's going on over on the flipside.

(Quick to add; for fans of the work Jennifer Shaffer and I have been doing for five years, she is amazing as well, as everyone knows who has worked with her - and we are continuing to do our work together. So my citing another medium is to point out that if one works with someone who knows what they're doing, or has abilities to do so, they will get positive results.)

But when I ran into this transcript yesterday, I realized I was so focused on the conversations with my old friend Bill Paxton that I neglected to put the "meeting with Kimberly's council" in the book "Architecture of the Afterlife."  

With my pal in action.

(And if I am every asked to have a "new edition" of "Architecture" I will include it. I wanted to share it with folks, and make some comments in the margins so to speak.  This may not make sense to folks who have not read "Architecture of the Afterlife" but will when they read it.)

"Kimberly is a minister, medium and intuitive and is from Ohio.  We met at Hugo’s restaurant in West Hollywood. After the first part of the interview, Bill popped into my mind; I hadn’t planned on asking questions about him but took the opportunity to do so. My questions are in italics, Kimberly’s replies are in bold. 

I asked Kim about her first experience talking to spirit, and from that I shifted to ask her to “visit her council.” (I hadn’t done this too often at this point, and it’s later that I do so in “Architecture of the Afterlife.”)  But in this case, I didn’t transcribe this portion, and I present it here for the first time.

Kimberly is a medium, and I generally ask mediums to describe the “first time they realized they could speak to spirit.” Kimberly describes an event where she found herself speaking to Erik Medhus, the deceased son of Dr. Medhus, who is also in this book. At some point I ask her if she can speak to her guide. She sees an angel – whom she calls Gabriel. I ask “Is this the same Gabriel that people refer to as an Archangel?” She says “He says, “Yes.”  I turn my camera on.


Kimberly: What’s interesting is this thing is shifting from what you’re saying back to this room, this room where I saw Jesus and Gabriel.

Richard: Let’s go back there now and talk to them. Let’s shift your consciousness to Gabriel’s point of view; what does Kimberly look like to you?

"Like a light, a light in the shape of a porpoise. The way that I would describe her, she looks very, vertical like straight up and down." (Gestures with her hands to indicate energy up and down.)

Is he tall or short?

I’m not getting that kind of description. More like color.

Is the color you’re seeing solid, or something else?

Before you asked that question, I saw this color. This is wild, it’s… there is color on the outside, lavender when you go inside ... from my perspective, I’m wondering what the backside is.. it’s like yellow.

(Note: When someone sees or hears an answer “before I ask the question” I realize that they are connected to what I’m asking them. Since then, I’ve heard this is a way to confirm that one is “connected.”)

So the color is purple on the outside and yellow on the inside. What do those colors represent in terms of your spiritual evolvement?

Like the yellow gold... it’s more yellow than gold. "It represents “wisdom” or the time related to the evolution of the soul – the purple represents... (Aside: This is all coming from Gabriel) The ability to move from one realm to the next."

Which color represents that movement?

"The purple."

To move in different realms and planes?

"Yes.  Okay, the yellow is like the inner part... it… (represents) what you’ve learned or evolved as a soul. The purple represents the capacity to continue."

Okay. Gabriel can you show you her council?

(Kimberly laughs) He says, “Why sure, she’s never asked.”

Describe the journey to your council.

There are two beings at a big long table, there’s two that I recognize, (then) there are 8 altogether.

Going from left to right, describe them, or if they have names?

They’re male. “I told you she prefers male.”

But the councils members are they all male?

Quite a few are male.

Left to right, let’s go to the first council member to your left. What quality does he represent in your spiritual evolvement?

(Note: This is question I ask when people aren’t aware of why they have a council, or even who the individuals are on their council. It’s a “skipping ahead” question because I already know that everyone on the council represents some spiritual aspect of the person I’m in the room with – I can’t see anyone, I’m in a restaurant looking at Kimberly through a lens.  But she can see them, and she can ask them questions. Even if she doesn’t know what I’m referring to.)

It seems like my connection with him is to understand and share that there’s no need for protection. He represents no need for protection… to avoid fear.

He represents the lack of fear or the ability to not be afraid?

Like there’s no need to protect themselves.

Like “openness.” Or the mediums ability to be “totally open to whatever comes through without judging it.”  Let’s go to the next one. What’s his role in your life?

That’s so weird, he’s telling me he goes by a name…I see this spelling, Asur, but he doesn’t go by that, he’s saying to call him “Zeus.”

Should we call you Asur or Zeus?

(Shrugs) He says, “He goes by Zeus.”

Are you the lead member of this council?

He says, “There is a person who is, but it’s not him... There is a lead person but I’m the one she talks to all the time.” He says one is protection, one is safety, one is a continual support – needing to feel comfort or comforted.

(Note: Interesting that he’s going down the row of what each council member represents, prior to my asking him the question.)

He says…. they’re showing me incarnation like for an infant.  Almost like going from an infant to this big gap in between.  Remembering who I am – like he represents “Remembrance.” He says, “In order for me to trust myself to who I truly am, I have to trust this.”

Okay, who’s next?

There are these two who I see all the time. This man... I’ve asked for his name many times, he just wants to use the word “Chief.” He’s Native American, he has a full head dress on.

(Note: For those keeping score, this is the sixth council member I’ve met wearing full headdress, and about the 12th person with a memory of a lifetime as a Native American.)

May I ask what tribe?

He’s saying “Little Foot” or “Black foot.”

(Note: Blackfoot is a tribe based in Oklahoma, and I interview someone from that tribe in the book “Architecture of the Afterlife.”)

Let me ask you Chief; did Kim have a lifetime as a Native American?

He says, “Two.”

What tribe was she with, can you show or tell her?

Sounds like – Powell.... powa... (to herself) Wow.

What’s the “wow” from?

That’s interesting, um I have had visions of this life, but didn’t know what it was, a long time ago, I had quick flashes of being a past life Native American female who slept with everyone but my mate, was found out… and because of that, I was burned alive. I was tied up that’s when they burned me… I keep hearing Pau... Powel... Paiute? 

Where in the U.S. was this tribe?

Feel like it’s from a map if I go way over actually to state of California, upper right hand corner.

(Note: Northern Paiute are from northeastern California, northwestern Nevada, eastern Oregon, and southern Idaho. (Wikipedia) Kim may have been recalling another reason. In a 1967 UC Berkeley paper on Paiute practices, in 1902 a settler reported a man “burned alive” for practicing witchcraft. In a 1938 UC Berkeley study, tribes “frowned upon adultery,” but witchcraft was the crime with capital punishment; “If (the) witch refused to cure (a) sick person or stop malevolent practices, patient's relatives, after obtaining chief's sanction, often killed witch… Murder of witch might be accomplished by.. (being) lowered over cliff, shot; bound with hair rope, tied to tree, (and) burned alive. Berkeley Press “Tuibatulabal Ethnography 1938)

(Trying to be light) Well, obviously you survived that, you were able to get past that – further, you chose to be that crazy woman, which sounds kind of fun.

(Kimberly smiles) Crazy!

But you got punished for it – and ultimately, despite the fire, they just sent you back home.

I have to process that.

Thank you Chief for showing that to her.

He said to tell you that he represents – The Chief says that "He never speaks, he wants to tell you this."

Well thank you for giving her that visual. Okay, who is the next person in this group?

Christian, a fellow I met years ago on a plane trip to Sedona.

What does he represent on your council?


Who else is here? To your left?

(Kimberly hesitates. Tears well in her eyes.) Mother Mary.

What does she look like?

When she stands, each time we address her, she stands and she’s short – She’s wearing blue. She has on something like this (gestures as if a long gown) the lazy feeling of dress that’s blue. She has dark eyes and her hair is brown but not dark brown. Wait, she said “Go a little bit lighter with the description of the hair." Her hair’s not quite so dark.

Thank you. Can I ask you a direct question Mary?

(Kimberly nods). She says, "Ask me a direct question."

Can I ask you a question about the father of your son? It relates to why Kim sees you with brown eyes, and some see him with blue or blue green eyes. Was his father a Greek or Roman soldier who had blue eyes, or did your son have brown eyes and people just get it wrong?

This is her response, first she looks at up… The first thing she said was “He is not like me – but it’s not about his features, he is not like me – and the Greek soldier, that resonated with her deeply.

(Note: Again, when I get the chance I throw in questions that the person I’m speaking with may have no understanding or access to. I’m fairly certain Kimberly has not heard the rumor that Josephus the historian started when he said that the father of Jesus was a Greek Roman soldier named Pantera, and his name was Jesus Ben Pantera (son of Pantera). I don’t know how accurate it is, but the idea that his birth father was someone outside his family is a likely event.)

Please correct me if I’m wrong, from what I understand, in your lifetime you were a servant or housekeeper for a Roman soldier, his name was reportedly Pantera... and he was the father of this child that you had that was so unusual; that’s why his features were different than others from the region.

All I can say is that when you are asking this, her energy – her energy goes right through me... it just keeps flowing. That’s a sign I have for something being truthful. And now this is odd. She’s sprinkling rose petals in front of me. In front of you, Richard.

May I ask why she is sprinkling rose petals in front of me?

I don’t know. A sign of respect perhaps?

Well, we’ve met before, I’ve spoken to her previously.  But let’s ask her directly, Mary, have you been on other councils?

She says "Yes." She says, “The rose petals are safety.” 

So I don’t slip and fall?

"No; for safety."

(Note: As I transcribe this passage I get the impression she’s saying “Don’t screw this up. Go lightly. You are messing with a story that’s not yours to mess with.” I shall attempt to tred lightly, as if walking on those rose petals. She represents unconditional love to many, and when she appears in any of the sessions, the print doesn’t do justice to the face of the person talking about her or to her. They “light up” and become incandescent, as Kim has done in this odd restaurant in West Hollywood. I would not want to step on any of Mary’s rose petals unless she wanted me to.)

I did ask Mary this question before, (via a shaman in Connecticut who channels her often) why when she appeared on the planet, she would say simplistic things about love – not scientific answers, or “evidence that she still exists” – just simple answers about “loving each other unconditionally.” She said at that time, “I answer what people need to hear; that love is universal, and god is love and love is all there is.”

Well, I turned and looked at her and asked her to tell me about my journey, what I’m doing in my work as a medium and she said “You see everybody that you see as her children that need help.” I think she sees us the same way.

Thank you, Mary; I’ll quote you on that. Can you introduce the last person on Kim’s council?

(Kimberly looks. She pauses.) That’s interesting. (Her eyes fill with tears.) She’s like – arr.. She’s like, “This is Edward.”

Is he young or old?

He feels like a young 50ish - but he’s gruff, he’s toughen up kind of guy.

What’s his role?

To strive, to be passionate; he’s so passionate and he’s – not “proud” but grounded. 

Edward what’s your experience hanging out on this council with Mary? Or am I wrong – do you folks hang out together or just come when called?

It’s more of a (“come when called”) response, it’s more like this: “If you have a traffic light, the light turns green, when Kim’s colors shift this way or that way (speaking to spirit) it’s like a magnet, we move when her color is moving – it’s not like a conscious effort – it’s more like I resonate or emanate different colors (that alerts them.) He says “He’s a teacher, a facilitator.”

May I ask if there is a theme for Kim’s many lifetime with regard to the kind of work that she’s doing being a medium?

I am hearing Gabriel speak. This is the archangel, the angel known as Gabriel.

Can I ask Gabriel a question? Are you the same Gabriel that appears often in the Bible and in the Qur’an?

(Listens) He says, "To answer your questions, the names aren’t important, it’s important to understand why you are plugging into these vibrations because of how it changes your essence, your soul, your vibration, it has nothing to do with your physical self, when you plug into these – someone is saying “You’re not one consciousness, you are threads of a compilation, and this is who you are. You belong to the threads, you belong to this classroom; they’re contributing to the essence of who you are."

Can I ask Gabriel to come forward?   

As he comes forward I feel like he’s standing at my right, and I feel… what is the word…? invincible. He’s very tall, like invincible... like “Nothing can touch or harm me, like a strength not of this world...” That’s him (talking); he’s claiming that.

Are you the same Gabriel that people refer to in history or is this a metaphor of Gabriel?

He responds, “I am Gabriel.” That’s how he responds to you – (Kimberly aside) He takes my breath away! It’s so strong.

My question is; are you the same Gabriel that visited Mary, Mohammed and Abraham? Or was that another Gabriel?

(Note: It’s something that occurred to me. People on the flipside offer that their experience is “outside of time.” That 25 years on the planet feels like five minutes to them, or 2500 years here feels like a month or so. Running into someone who lived 5000 years ago wouldn’t be that unusual, and further, if people keep showing up in the Good Book with the same name, who is giving them that name? Apologies for the repetition, but I asked it three different ways.)

Before I can answer that he’s got a massive rope around his chest and he keeps saying to look at it... it represents strength – it feels really dry, he’s showing me all the threads, how they’re intertwined. They’re close together and its really strong – He says “See where it’s frayed? It’s really weak. That’s what you’re supposed to teach; tell people to come together because together we’re stronger, and when we aren’t (together) we are weak.” It’s taking my breath away.

Is this rope something you earned?

“No, it’s just a metaphor to help her understand what I need to say.”

(Note: I’ve never had someone on the flipside offer a metaphor for the purpose of sharing an insight. The idea that he is showing her a massively frayed rope to give her a metaphor is mind bending. She isn’t creating this metaphor, but seeing it in real time. She saw it first, then reported what he said about the rope draped over his shoulder. “It’s frayed – but when the threads are together, they are stronger. You humans need to come together to be stronger.”)

Gabriel, is there anyone else in this group we need to speak with?

He says “Yes, about the story about the cave – he says go back to that question.”

(Note: This is a first as well. Someone on her council insisting I return to a question about Jesus being in the cave. He wants to clarify a point that Kimberly could not be aware of.)

So, you are the same Gabriel who runs into these people in the Bible and the Qur’an?

(She nods) But he keeps saying “Resurrection.” I asked him if that’s what he meant about the cave. He keeps saying “Resurrection.” (Kimberly aside) Wow. Yes sir. He keeps giving this gesture (hand back and forth) over and over and saying “Resurrection.”

(Note: She’s moving her hand back and forth, back and forth and saying “Resurrection.” He said “I want to return to a concept in the cave” – which was where the “resurrection” of Jesus took place. That is, he was dying on the cross, they pulled him off (still bleeding) and put him in a cave with 75 pounds of restoratives. Then apparently he was moved to another cave where he was healed and able to leave and return back to Kashmir. 

But what part of “being in the cave” is he referring to by using the word “resurrection?”

From Wikipedia; “Resurrection or anastasis is the concept of coming back to life after death… Reincarnation is a similar process hypothesized by other religions, which involves the same person or deity coming back to live in a different body, rather than the same one. The resurrection of the dead is a standard eschatological belief in the Abrahamic religions. As a religious concept, it is used in two distinct respects: a belief in the resurrection of individual souls that is current and ongoing, or else a belief in a singular resurrection of the dead at the end of the world. Some believe the soul is the actual vehicle by which people are resurrected.”

So if what he’s referring to is based on the same research, it would be that the process of “returning to life” (and returning to home) is like a resurrection. We are “resurrected” when we return home (reconnecting with all of our energy) and when we return here, we are “resurrected” with the conscious energy of being in a human body. Going and coming is relatively the same thing, relatively “resurrecting” each time we choose a new lifetime.)

Thank you very much Gabriel. Before we run out of time, can you guys show Kim a place of healing where she can go after this lifetime where they took her to heal? Is there a place for her to heal?

(Kimberly wipes away tears.) He’s showing me…. he just shows this room like we walked down this hall, and it’s all white. But the whiteness feels tangible, and he’s on my left and this is Gabriel leading me, and he’s sort of there in this opening and he gestures for me to enter. The room is gold, and there’s nothing in the room, but the light is golden, the walls are gold and are the vibration of Kim – not the earthly Kim, but the higher Kim.

And Gabriel is saying, “The way that you heal others or help others…” Those words don’t really  grasp the breadth of what he’s saying. He says “That is what makes the walls so strong here.  That’s what is healing for you.”  Gabriel is saying how “Something might have a stamp of time on it, but it’s really not (locked) in that stamp of time; it’s always occurring, it’s always in existence. So therefore that’s what upholds this vibrating place, this room that continues to grow (from Kim’s vibration.)”

So this is a room that Kim created?


(Note: In “Flipside” there is an account of a fellow escorted into a giant temple, filled with people in white uniforms, hats. He’s told that this cathedral was “built from all the good intentions that you’ve done over all of your lifetimes.” Then he’s taken outside and shown a giant temple that resembles the Taj Mahal and says “And that’s yours as well. We created it for you, so you can entertain yourself with whatever you want back here.”)

So this room is constructed from the energy of Kim healing people? A construction composed of the things she’s achieved in her work?

He says, “Yes.” He says “She’ll go and she’ll see by running her hands, (along the walls) merging with that energy, she’ll see both sides of it.. so if I did something to make someone else heal, I would experience not just Kim perspective but the healed person’s perspective too and that’s why it’s so strong.

Let me ask, Gabriel, can you give her a sensation of remembering this room now? Can you give her that?

(Kimberly reacts) Oh. (She sighs, cries) He um… He brought Christ forward.

(Note: Interesting to note, I didn’t ask for him to come forward, I asked if he could help her remember the sensation of being in this “healing room” where all of her “golden energy” exists. Instead, he responded by bringing someone else forward.)

Can we talk to him a little bit?

(Kimberly laughs) Jesus is like, “You mean do you have time to talk to Jesus?” He brought him forward and said “This is her home she knows her home in me.”

Describe what he looks like to you.

He’s taller than me, not by a whole lot. His hair is like dark brown... his eyes are like a blue- green. He’s wearing something really plain. (Reacts). He just had me feel the hair on his face. (She touches her own face. She is in tears as she recounts this.)

Jesus, can you step back a few feet? We can’t have a conversation with you if you’re going to freak people out. Maybe you can change your clothes to something else…

He’s in jeans and a tee shirt before you said that! He just did that!

(Note: Again, a visual or a response before I can ask for it. He often shows up this way after I ask him to “change into something casual.” It’s often jeans and a tee shirt.)

Let her see that you are a regular person.

(Kim wipes away a tear). He’s just so compassionate… “But I’m also just like you...” he said.

Like Kim you mean. I like his sense of humor.

“Both,” he said.

Has anyone complained about the book?

(Note: Again, I’m asking a question Kimberly doesn’t know the answer to. I’m referring to the recent publication of the book “Hacking the Afterlife” where he repeats a number of these controversial points. And he responds to the question, without Kimberly knowing what I’m referring to.)

He says, “It brings a level of truth and awareness that is right now. It is... needed.”

(Note: At this point, I realize my camera battery is getting low, so I ask if he can bring someone forward that Kimberly doesn’t know. My old friend Bill Paxton (but I don’t mention his last name.)

Jesus, can do me a huge favor. Can you bring my friend Bill forward?

Kimberly: He says, “Bill has been waiting for you.”

Hi Bill. What do you want to say to your family or friends?


         Kimberly Babcock

And the interview then goes on to talk to my old friend Bill Paxton. (That portion is in "Architecture of the Afterlife" and footage is in the film "Talking to Bill Paxton" on Gaia.) Kimberly is available for private consultation, and a close friend called me after a session with her to rave about her abilities. 

Kimberly is the author of "Inside Out" and here's a link to her book. She can be found on Facebook, Linked In and at Instagram.  

I was startled by how the contents of this session are repeated in other sessions in "Architecture of the Afterlife." I'm only sorry I didn't include the entire interview in the book. (When the folks on the flipside take the time to speak to us, the least I can do is quote them accurately.) Basically other "archangels" show up in "Architecture" - there are other mentions of Jesus, how he looks, what he's up to, etc - all appear in the book, not related to this interview, but indeed related - because the does the same things (changes into jeans and a tee shirt for example)!

But something I wanted to mention with regard to this interview.

I didn't know this was her moniker. Honest.

At some point she mentions Mother Mary "tossing rose petals."  As I was transcribing this yesterday, I thought - hang on, why is Mary throwing rose petals at me?  At first I was startled (Is she telling me to be quiet? Or to keep going?) - and yesterday I came upon this answer; 

“Go gently. There are people here (listening to you) who have spent their lives in deep faith and reverence.  They are people doing their best to share love and compassion. 

They happen to be of faith, they happen to have the path that they chose. Tred lightly, as these are rose petals in your path.”

So I’m going to try to do that in the future. Apologies to anyone I have not “tred lightly” with. I shall endeavor to do less stomping on rose petals and more deftly dancing between them. 

Mea culpa.


Meta Meta Metaphor and "You must learn to kneel before you can stand"

In my ongoing observations of conversations I've been having with folks on the Flipside (no other way to put it) the latest two topics are related to the concepts of "Meta meta metaphor" and "Learning to kneel helps one learn to stand."

As noted before, having all of these "conversations" with folks on the flipside via Jennifer Shaffer, appears to have opened a garden gate to my subconscious. (Perhaps it's the six deep hypnosis sessions that I've done with Newton Institute trained hypnotherapists (Jimmy Quast of Easton Hypnosis, and Scott De Tamble of - both trained by Michael Newton).

As noted in "Flipside: A Tourist's Guide on How to Navigate the Afterlife" - the second time I did a deep hypnosis session, this time with Scott instead of Jimmy Quast, I had the experience of "walking out the screen door" into a backyard again.  It was like I had opened the garden gate already, and when Scott began to "count me down" I saw the gate was still open - he got a few seconds in and I said "No need to do that, Scott; I'm already back there."

Flipside squad: Jennifer Shaffer and Scott De Tamble

And in that moment, I was aware that I was spontaneously back in a classroom that I had visited two years earlier via Jimmy Quast... a classroom I've never seen before, am not consciously aware of, but is relative to the one that my friend Luana Anders told me about before she crossed over.

 The one I witnessed was not like the one she had a "memory of" prior to passing ("Everyone is dressed in white speaking a language I've never heard before but completely understand") - in my view, I was standing at the back of an auditorium "in the cheap seats" of an auditorium style lecture hall one might see in a large University.

I saw my friend Luana in the back  with her pals, wearing a pony tail, looking about 20 (I met her years later in her life, but recognized her instantly) and she looked at me as if to say "What the heck are you doing here?" 

I spoke aloud (to Jimmy Quast, the hypnotherapist who had asked "What is this place?") and was startled that the class stopped and everyone, including the teacher looked at this interloper.  As if I had "materialized" in the midst of a lecture, and now was speaking aloud (speaking aloud to the hypnotherapist Jimmy Quast and on camera) saying "Um, I'm in a classroom, and I've interrupted them, and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be here."

Cut to two years later - doing a session with Scott De Tamble. 

On the set of my film "My Bollywood Bride"

It was his suggestion that I "try another session" and I thought "Great idea!" as perhaps the first deep hypnosis session (recalling a lifetime as a Sioux) was somehow fantasy, and I'd have a completely different experience.

But that wasn't the case. 

As he's counted me down, I become aware that I was teleported "back in that classroom" I had visited two years earlier, only in this time frame it was a few minutes later. I became aware that in the interim, Luana has walked me down to meet the teacher after class, and was apologizing (profusely) for my interruption of the class.  


She was in the midst of telling the teacher "I'm sorry, but this is my friend and he's doing a documentary and he didn't mean to interrupt the class..." And I'm having the "Shakespearean nightmare" where an actor wakes up from a dream on stage in front of an audience and doesn't know what play he's in.  

I become aware that I was standing next to my friend (I don't recall walking down from the back of the auditorium to the front of the class) but she's in midsentence when I become "consciously aware" she's making these apologies on my behalf.

 Luana in double reflection.

I had the presence of mind to look up at the teacher (about 8 feet tall) and see that he wasn't upset, kind of disinterested. He said simply "So what are your questions?" 

And I launched into a number of them - (transcription in "Flipside") including "What's this class about, and was I correct two years ago (in my earth time) in my assessment of how the process works?"  And he answered those questions succinctly and without emotion. I was filming this session and the transcript is in the book as well. The answers are not anything I could make up, could not be cryptomnesia, as the answers were beyond any science I've heard of, or any religious concept I'm aware of.  I'm just reporting.

But here we are 12 years after those events, and I'm having these series of dreams where I am "mid conversation" with a group of people. 

                          Portrait of Luana from her fellow classmate (and young star who                              died in a car accident Tom Pittman).

I can't consciously say who they are, but I know that Luana is with them. And they are "discussing with me" various aspects of consciousness - how it functions, how incarnation works, and what the heck we're doing on the planet in the first place.

I have no other way to describe it.

I am no sage, I'm not a medium, I'm not someone trying to sell someone the concept. People buy my books and I warn them - "this may alter your path, so be prepared to get a refund."  It's my caveat I often use - "Please return this book if it bothers you in any way. I won't be offended. Get your money back, give the book back to whomever gave it to you."

But I would be remiss if I didn't report. After all, my books are filled with people sharing their most intimate thoughts with me (anonymously if asked) and I put them in print for everyone to see.  So I have no problem saying "Last night I was having a conversation with an avatar and we were talking about this..."

This is an ongoing discussion apparently. The posts about it are continuing - I have no story beats or outline of what I'm supposed to talk about. I'm just reporting here.

Four nights ago it was Luana talking about photographs being a piece of captured time, and how photographs are "meta meta metaphors" of reality.

Pere LaChaise. Are these objects our loved ones?
Or metaphors for our loved ones?

That is - the photo is taken of us, who are standing in a time frame with loved ones. Those loved ones are energy, light if you will, inhabiting form.  They are playing the roles of the parts they've agreed to play - parent, friend, enemy, etc - (see previous post "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy" reference from the poem that continues “rich man, poor man, beggar man, thief”) and the camera is capturing "time and space" of that moment when all were together.  That time frame still exists - can be accessed like a packet of time, or like a floppy disc with all the details of the holograph of that event.  By accessing the photograph we can explore further details - what guides were involved, who else was there, etc.

A photo of Prince? How does an outline translate
into an emotion? Is his energy included in
his notes, his image? If so, how do we access it?

But that too is a metaphor. Like books that we consider sacred are metaphors for behavior, like scientific facts are actually metaphors for how things really work.. One could say that all photographs are 1s and 0s (as translated in computer language) and all experiences are 1s and 0s as well. After all, all sensations are "translated" by the synapses of the brain - whether sound or light, touch or emotion - all are translations (or metaphors) for what existence is.

Further, mind bendingly, it appears (based on the research) that every event we experience is like putting a URL or a link in our mind to the experience.  So we don't have to store the actual information in the lengthy (stretched out rope) of a brain... it's stored there like a link is stored on a computer.  It's refers to information that is offsite. But even that offsite information is also composed of metaphor - 1s and 0s that represent experience.

This NASA photo is metaphor - as these lights
existed billions of years ago, took that long to arrive
on the planet. We are looking at light that no longer
exists, and yet it does exist. Meta meta metaphor.

Hence why, when I asked "How am I going to consciously remember this conversation?" she said "Just remember the term meta meta metaphor and it will come back to you."  So that's what I've done, and that's what's above.

All paintings are metaphor; including Raphael's.

Last night it was the phrase:

"You need to learn to kneel before you can learn to stand."

Since I have bad knees from playing sports (football) I couldn't kneel if I wanted to, and if I'm in a church service, when it comes time to "use the kneelers" I'm one of those fellows who "pretends to kneel" but uses the pew to support the ruse.

Can't do it.

So the idea of "kneeling" for me is a rough concept. It also relates to "kings and queens" and "kneeling before royalty."  Which to me is contrary to my persona - I once was asked by a Prince's Chief of Police if my comment "What he did is tacky" if I was "insulting the Prince."  I knew this fellow was royalty, and I was in his country, observing his tacky behavior and had the temerity to tell him to his face. To which his bodyguard/chief said the sentence in a way that if I answered I could have been arrested.

But we didn't fight a war with the British to suddenly start bowing and scraping - so the idea of bowing to someone else over a bloodline is a primary no no for me. Won't do it. If you catch me doing it, kick me - as I wouldn't do it otherwise.  Blood lines are ridiculous in terms of how we navigate the planet - sorry, just not going to go there.

So the sentence has my hackles up as I hear it. I know I protested the "sentence" for me to remember.  But I have to allow it considering the person who said it.

Let's unpack it for a second. "Kneeling" is often associated with prayer. What is prayer? It's both meditation and supplication.  On one hand, we meditate (Latin to measure - "med") on the person we are asking intercession from, or we meditate on the person we are trying to gain help for ("Tonglen" Tibetan meditation that according to peer review studies, can "cure or alleviate symptoms of depression") - so by meditating, or praying on someone else's behalf, we are technically in the kneeling position (at least mentally) of asking for assistance or help.

"You need to learn how to kneel."  

Perhaps a way of saying "By dropping our ego, dropping our desires or wants on behalf of someone else, we get closer to the core of things, how consciousness functions, how we are all connected at all times, and by "kneeling" and dropping the ego, we get closer to source by doing so.

"Before we can stand" - to me, seems to be about "standing our ground" or "standing on firm logic."  

So in essence, if we want to argue something, or argue with someone - we at first need to "kneel" to the idea of understanding how we are all connected, and how this person I'm arguing with is also from source, but may have an alternate experience than mine - and by "kneeling" we are able to then "be able to stand." Standing in terms of understanding how consciousness functions. "Under Standing."

Frankly - that's about as best as I can do with the concept.  

I know that it sounds like a religious concept - but like I say, when I heard it, I rejected it, and said "Isn't there another metaphor I can use?" and the answer was 

"You need to learn to kneel before you can learn to stand."

I looked over at Luana (in my mind's eye in this dream) and said "Who are we talking to about this?" And she said "Jesus." And then I looked back and saw that fellow, that guy - but consciously so.  Robes and all. Smile too.

Startled - and at the same time thinking "Really? I've been having this conversation with him all this time and only at the very end do I become aware of it?"

Like I say - return the book (or post) if its problematic, move onto the next post if this is confusing or sounds egocentric.  It's not. I'm just reporting. I have argued that in all of our chats with him (via other people, reported in "Hacking the Afterlife" and "Architecture of the Afterlife") that I have nothing to do with access to him - that everyone appears to have their own access to him (and any avatar) whenever they so choose to learn to do so. (Or open the garden gate to do so.)

Ladakh. "Future Buddha."

And by "any avatar" that's demonstrated repeatedly in "Architecture of the Afterlife" where I film people accessing Buddha, Ma Durga, Krishna, Shiva and other avatars, including "Archangels." (Self identified - not my word I would use, but they offer it.)

They all claim to be "radiating at the same frequency."  And by "claim" I mean, I ask the question - "So how is it this person is seeing you at this moment in time? Is this related to their path and journey, are they creating a visual of you because they want to? Or do all of the avatars have something in common? And your appearance in this conversation is related to other conversations?" It's mind bending when "they" refer to conversations I've had with "others" that the person reporting has no access to.

I had not hear of Ma Durga - but met her first via Jennifer Shaffer. Then after a number of "conversations" looked her up.  It's a metaphor for who she is. Avatar.

The answer I've filmed/recorded/reported is: "We are always accessible to you, and we all radiate at the relative same frequency." 

So in this ongoing "chitchat" with folks on the flipside, I assume other folks across the planet are having the same experience, the same kinds of conversations, consciously or not. 

Perhaps with their higher consciousness involved, perhaps unaware of them, but for some reason, "the veil is thinning" and I'm hearing it more and more often in the comments on Quora.

Book available online, "Hacking the Afterlife" forum is on Quora.

The "Hacking the Afterlife" forum has over 30k members, and 14 million views. It very well could be that their "higher selves" "guides" or "teachers" are sending them there to share this information... but either way, I'm just reporting. 

My two sesterce.

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