These are photographs of Freddie Forrest and his co star Luana Anders from their film "When the Legends Die."  

I was conversing with one of the folks mentioned in this interview when I realized he'd never heard it. 

So I transcribed it for him.

He also worked with Freddie Forrest.

We were talking about Cindy Williams, so I asked "Have you seen our podcast where we interviewed Cindy?" He had not. 

So here it is. To realize our friends are never ever very far away.

Good to know!

Frederic Forrest Luana Anders "When the Legends Die"

This is an excerpt from our podcast “Hacking the Afterlife with Jennifer Shaffer, Cindy Williams and friends.” Edited for content:  Feb 3rd, 2023.

Jennifer Shaffer in Bold, My comments in italics.

Rich: (after Cindy Williams shows up in our class on the flipside) I already knew she was going to be here, I already had a conversation with Cindy this morning. I was on Laverne and Shirley (decades ago) and Cindy called me “fur face” on the show. This morning I heard her voice say "hello fur face.”  Cindy, who greeted you on the flipside?

Jennifer: (Pause) Not Penny. (laughter) She says, “My animals.” She says “Penny was off smoking when I came over!”

(aside to audience) Jennifer doesn’t know anything about Penny – she did smoke like crazy and that was Cindy’s big complaint in their office together on the Paramount lot.

Jennifer: She says that Penny says “There’s no filter over here!”

Rich: Cindy, what was it like crossing over?

She says, “It’s my birthday!” (Jennifer aside: I don’t understand.)

I think I do. We’ve heard it before; it’s her birthday on the flipside.

She says, “It sucks. It meant I had died.” She said, “She was way ready to go. But… One of her sons didn’t want to let her go..”

Who was that? Your son, Zack?

She says, “Yes Mr. Know it all.”

She has a son Zack, and her daughter is Emily.

(Jennifer aside: I don’t know!) I feel like Zack wasn’t ready to let her go. He was… but he wasn’t. She says “I didn’t need permission, but it helped me get out of there.” (laughs) She said she died of second hand smoke. She says “She died from lung cancer, second hand smoke…” (A pause) No, she’s kidding about that, completely kidding. Penny just made a smacking gesture. (Like “stop trying to be funny.”)

So I want to ask about your journey Cindy. You grew up in where? Show Jennifer.

I’m seeing the Hollywood sign?

In L.A., yes. Well, sort of, the valley.  And you did work at the Whiskey a Go Go.

She said, “Everybody worked there.” She says “That’s where I learned not to smoke.”

Of course; second hand smoke in those days… super popular.

She says, “That’s when she got discovered. She met someone there.. and (then) Penny.”

But let’s discuss before you get to Penny, she’s a little later.

(Jennifer aside) She’s telling me that’s not when she met Penny. (correcting her)

I want to ask “When you met Fred.” You know who I’m talking about but Jennifer does not. Luana knows.

She says (at) “21.”

I think that’s right. What was that like to meet Fred, anything you want to say to fred?

She said “He should be here and I should be there! We should switch places.” She’s joking.  She said “Thank you.”

Fred had a partner.

She’s showing me (the film) “Grease…?”

(Note: Funny, American Graffiti was a version of Grease, didn’t think of this at the time. And “Happy Days” was “Graffiti.”)

Well, Penny’s brother was Fred’s partner. They managed her. We’ve interviewed Penny’s brother when he crossed over? Garry.

Garry. She said that.

And Fred and Garry put her in some movies to begin with. Penny do you want to show who it was that  put you in one of your first movies, the most famous one? His first name is George. George is on this side. You want to talk about that?

She says, “It was thrilling, exciting…” I don’t know what her part was. It was small she said.. (holds up her fingers to indicate tiny) (Jennifer aside) I know you’re talking about George Lucas. She showed me something and I got sidetracked. She said, “It was spectacular.” She said “I wasn’t worthy” and made that “I’m not worthy” bow…  but says “It was a small part that led to something else.”

That’s right – a smaller part in the first film.

She showed me like R2D2, but not him. She’s making a joke about it being small.

You don’t know the name of the film Jennifer – it was American Graffiti.

Jennifer shrugs. (Hasn’t seen it) Why does Jack Nicholson show up?

Let’s hold on to that thought for a second. Cindy, we interviewed the father of the fellow you starred with in that film. The father’s name was Rance – and then later this fellow named Ron you worked with. We interviewed Rance Howard.

(Note: We interviewed Rance years earlier just after he passed, it’s in the book BACKSTAGE PASS TO THE FLIPSIDE. Rance starred in my film “Limit Up”)

Opie’s dad!

Right. Opie and Cindy starred in….

“Happy Days.”

And Garry Marshall produced that and came up with the spinoff that put his sister with Cindy.

She says “He’s the smarter one.”  (A comic dig at Penny)

I wrote to Fred yesterday, and called you one of the most generous sweet spirits he’d ever met.

(continuing her riff) She says, “Anything better than Penny.”

Cindy, is there anything you want to say to Fred?

(A pause) She’s quoting you; She says “tell him I’m not gone, I’m just not there.”

Anything for Ron?

He feels like a little brother.

Ron was 18 when they were cast and Cindy was 24, and in his tribute yesterday Ron mentioned their friendship.

She said, “He treated me like I was his older sister, and that stayed until I passed.”

Yesterday Ron said “It’s really a shock to imagine that spark is gone.” So let me ask you Cindy, is the spark gone?

She says, “It’s just getting started again.” With my birthday party (coming to the flipside.)

Anything you want to say to Ron?

What I said to his face, “I love you always.”

Your ex husband Bill is still on the planet.

She’s laughing. She says “You can have it.” I don’t know what she means. “He can have it.” He’ll know what that means. I don’t know. I saw a car, and then I saw a horse…

If someone knows Bill Hudson, let him know, he can have it.

I asked “what is it?” she said “He’ll know what it means.”

Okay, why is it you were ready to talk (to us)? Some people show up and are not ready to talk.

Because she had time to believe in it.. what I’m getting is, if I’m getting the right interpretation, she is saying, what I’m feeling that, first of all I have a lot of friends over there, we all work together just like we did here, second I talked to a lot of people on the other side that I was heart broken over and so I thought that was easier – and she believes in our class and what we’re doing..

What about Harry Dean Stanton?

She says, “It took him a little longer.”

Here’s the weird part, I did a Laverne and Shirley where I was a pizza delivery guy always missing a slice of pizza – and Harry Dean was on that show.  That fur face thing was her line to me – it was funny because Penny had to cut me out. But there’s a lot of people in our class, including Penny’s brother that we’ve interviewed. (Robin Williams too)

There’s a lot of love and laughter over here, you can only imagine what they had while making the show, take that and then (uses her hands) it’s over there, and there’s all this love and laughter and we try to recreate things that make us feel loved. She says, “If I knew it was going to be this great, I would have quadrupled all of that here.” She knew this (concept) – that whatever you want the most of – give it away. In this life, in the afterlife, it all comes back.

Let me ask this – you and Penny had a falling out during the show – people talked about it. What was it like when you saw Penny?

I punched her. (But) It went right through her. (A pause) There was an immediate understanding and love right after that. And it was inconsequential, the show was like a grain of sand, compared to what we’ve been through.

Over other lifetimes?

She says, “Yeah.”

There was a time I played the piano to accompany Penny on a yacht..

She says, “Where was I? I wasn’t on that yacht?!”

(Laughs) Yes, It was Bob Shaye’s millennium yacht – I played songs with Penny and others.

(Jennifer aside) I didn’t know that. But she showed me a boat and you playing piano.

I heard you this morning as I was shaving, call me “fur face” – I appreciate what you’re saying that the afterlife is all the glorious things from life, was there anything weird about realizing that or was there total acceptance?

She’s saying, “There was complete vulnerability and love – every life is not perfect, but it’s the essence of who you are that comes into a room that meets everyone who loved you, or didn’t like you, whatever, but the essence of Penny… and it was that I loved her so much that I didn’t like her. Like, we were so much alike, that’s why we fought. We were one big roller coaster with each other.”

Before I forget David Kirkpatrick had a fun memory of you giving him the keys to your office – he wanted to point out that gesture of your generosity stayed with him throughout his life.

(Jennifer observes) She shrugged, says, “That was so simple – it wasn’t right we had AC and others did not… but we needed it because our makeup would melt without it.” She showed me (and says) “It’s this little thing, the essence of who you are, part of getting things and giving them away is the essence of who they were and are.”

And David pointed out that it was through you he met George Lucas, became aware of Harrison and all that - how your generosity and intervention was how that happened.

She’s showing me Garry and Fred (as well) – and how everyone is connected, how we’re all light. She’s showing me it’s like a magnet, you can't go up against a connection that isn’t meant for you – but if you’re across the world you’re going to attract the people you need to meet.

So it’s a bit like quantum mechanics?

Jennifer taps her nose.

Who’s saying yes?

Luana is saying “That means yes.”

Funny, Luana had an album of Simon and Garfunkel’s that she lit a candle under when she was a teen, told her roommate she was going to know them, and later I found out she dated both of them but neither knew about it.

(Jennifer pauses) Have you talked to Jack lately?

I have not. what does Luana want to say?

It’s about the script.

The one about his life?

Yes. She wants you to focus on that.

I was reading Sally Kellerman’s autobiography “Read my lips” – so many great stories in that. Need to put those in the script. So what are you saying, we need to put it back on the burner?

Jennifer nods, taps her nose again.

Last time I mentioned it to Fred, he said “I never stop thinking about this script.”

“Full circle” she says, “How everything’s connected. Everyone has access to what they’re supposed to be doing. It’s just about following your passion – all the light can come in.” They’re showing me how I bring people to life from this side.

So Cindy started this conversation saying it was her birthday on the flipside.  Let’s give Cindy the last word.

Jennifer laughs. She says “Thank for taking my call.” And then everyone - They all just screamed together “Love love!” 

It was Robin Williams who told us that – to “Love love.” “Love who you are, love who you’re with.”

“Everything bad or indifferent or great makes up who you are. Just Love love.”

Thanks Jennifer. Wow.

Towards a Hipper Obit - the language of the Flipside

 Towards a new flipside language.

In the headlines every day, we hear or see the terms “So and so dead at age..” “So and so has died” or people refer to their loved ones as “Lost” or the “tragic loss” or “dead, died…” — I grew up with the term “Kicked the bucket.” An old midwestern term, it was the “last thing someone did before departing God’s green earth.”

In the movie “It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World” the film opens with a fellow driving recklessly through the desert, then he drives off a cliff. All the cast members run down the hill to see if the guy’s alive. (Jimmy Durante). With his last breath, he reveals that he’s buried a fortune “under the sign of the X” in Santa Monica, and then promptly kicks a bucket that magically appears next to his foot.

So the audience knows he’s gone. He’s “kicked the bucket.”

Term appears in old English in the 18th century, no one is sure why — perhaps when hanging a poor sod, someone puts him on the bucket, then kicks it to end his journey. Or perhaps he kicks it. Accidentally? No one knows.

If I had any influence over news media editorial, i would issue a fatwa to use certain words when describing those who leave the stage early. Not they’re “dead, died, killed, tragic, lost”… all those word imply they are gone, presumably unaware of where they are, what happened, or that they still exist.

“They left the stage” works. Like “Elvis has left the building.” Doesn’t mean he’s disappeared, just that “He’s offstage.”

Based on personal experience, based on data, based on research, based on studies that show consciousness is not confined to the brain, everyone offstage knows where they are once they leave the stage.

They can be confused at first, reportedly because they were told incessantly things were supposed to end but didn’t, their family, friends, religious practices emphasized something would happen — and even if it does happen (and in 1–3% of NDE case studies when something negative happens) when the person realizes that what they imagined isn’t accurate, the mental construct dissolves and they realize “they’re home.”

That’s the term everyone uses. When asked “So where did you go after the memory of that lifetime?” they always say “Home.” Some might recall “coming back again” — but if they’re asked to “go back to the memory of that previous lifetime. Where did you go just after that?” They inevitably say “I went home.”

As in not here.

They can realize why they chose their path, why they agreed to participate in the play, realize that everybody left onstage cannot hear, see them.. except for pets, small children whose filters haven’t kicked in, or some mediums with altered filters, or the others offstage. They’re aware of us, but can’t change the fact that we’re no longer onstage.

People offstage are not “lost, gone, finished, over, ended.” They know that. We do not.

So why use false language?

My experience is that while they’re offstage, and their role in the play has ended, we can feel the grief, the mental anguish, the suffering of their no longer being onstage, but we can also stop pretending they are gone, lost, or don’t exist just because we don’t “see” “hear” or otherwise “confirm their existence onstage.”

I sound like the “word police.”

But why not?

When the headline reads, “so and so left the stage today” or “we mourn the loss” and at the same time hail the person for their journey — no matter how long or short — and acknowledge that while we may not understand the circumstances around their departure, equally we cannot understand the circumstances around their coming here in the first place until we actually take the time to learn about the process.

Either from our own journey or from asking them directly.

They exist. Are accessible.

Yesterday was looking at a study published via UVA’s Medical School DOPS, Dr. Emily Kelly examines the specific data regarding what people experienced during their near death event. (2001)

In the section about who people saw on the flipside:

“Other Figures Seen Among the 274 cases examined in this study, 189 persons ( 69% ) reported seeing or sensing the presence of someone, whether recognized or unrecognized : 28 people saw only a recognized deceased person, 46 saw other figures in addition to a recognized deceased person, 115 saw only other figures and 85 saw no one at all.

Among the 161 people who saw other figures 18 ( 11% ) identified one of them as a religious figures, usually Jesus. Eleven ( 7% ) Dr. E. W. Kelly reported seeing living persons whom they recognized, but very few reported seeing fanciful or unrealistic figures. Only two saw animals ( both were deceased pets). Many saw a Being of Light, whom they strongly identified with God. For the most part, however, the other figures remained unrecognized and unidentified.”

But they know who these folks are now.

(Data, research, post materialist science demonstrates consciousness is not confined to the brain. See Dr. Greyson’s AFTER, Dr. Tucker’s BEFORE, Dr. Kelly’s IRREDUCIBLE MIND, Dr. Presti’s MIND BEYOND BRAIN, Dr. Beauregard’s EXPANDING REALITY. People can recall previous lifetimes, examples in Dr. Wambach’s 2750 case studies, Dr. Weiss 4k cases, Michael Newton’s 7k reports, the 200 I’ve filmed in the documentaries FLIPSIDE or HACKING THE AFTERLIFE on Gaia.)

So we can’t say (well, we can, but why pretend?) “they’re gone” or “they don’t exist” or “they’re buried in the earth” — because that’s about their costumes. That’s about the props that are left onstage.

When they leave the stage, we should refer to their contribution to the planet — no matter what age. It takes courage, selflessness, humor and compassion to show up here onstage, and we immediately pretend that once they’re offstage they no longer exist. Somebody should fix that.

My two cents.




Jesus and the Flipside

 Simon Bown had me on his podcast today to talk about the latest book THE GREATEST STORY NEVER TOLD AS TOLD BY JESUS AND THOSE WHO KNEW HIM.

At some point we thought we'd see if we could talk to Jesus. 

Simon did a guided meditation where he walked us into a cabin in the woods where Jesus and he had a conversation. I supplied the questions, Jesus gave the answers.

I asked him if he'd read the book. "I've got a lot to do" he said. I asked him about the events in the book. "Accurate for the most part." I asked him about the description of him on the cross. He said "It wasn't me up there."

He then told a story that is reported in the Qur'an.  That a confederate, a follow who looked just like him was on the cross. He said that the volunteer was a Roman soldier who looked just like him, who switched with him while Jesus was being beaten up.  That because the face was so bloody, no one recognized the switch.

That's how he was able to leave after three days. 

He confirmed the detail that he was married to Mary Magdalene. That they had and lost children. (He said 9, I've heard other accounts of 5 and lost 3.) He said they went to France first, then later to Kashmir.

That he also traveled with his brother "James" although he used another word.  He said that eventually Mary Magdalene returned to France after his death at 87.

(I've heard 68 as well).  

It's contrary to the story that's told in "The Greatest Story Never Told as Told by Jesus and Those Who Knew Him."  I will transcribe this podcast, the Jesus portion, and include it in future copies (something you can do with publishing these days. Upload a newer version with fixed typos, new chapters, as I often do.)

Some woman left a review on Amazon complaining about the typos.  There was an errant copy that existed briefly on Kindle - published an earlier draft - that has been corrected. So if anyone wants to, they can just go to Kindle and reupload the book for the corrected text.

Or for new chapters.

Interesting information. Simon did two things that corroborated for me that he as talking to the Alpha and Omega. His eyes were brown "with flecks of gold."  When asked to change into something more casual he changed into jeans and a tee shirt. In this case "The Grateful Dead."

Fellow has a sense of humor.

We got him to laugh a couple of times. Simon said "Jesus is laughing."

I said "Well, then this podcast is worth it just to make Jesus laugh."

It should be out in a week or so, will post a link asap to his podcast:


Popular Posts

google-site-verification: googlecb1673e7e5856b7b.html