Talking to John Lewis on the Flipside

Speaking of and talking to John Lewis...

Congressman Lewis (Wikipedia)

For fans of the flipside research, the process has been the same. I film people under hypnosis speaking to folks on the other side (or their higher selves, guides, teachers, etc) and put those transcripts into my books (or turn that into a documentary; "Flipside" on Amazon Prime or "Talking to Bill Paxton" on Gaia.)

When I started working with the amazing Jennifer Shaffer, I filmed our conversations, often in a noisy restaurant - but my goal was to record the conversation for print later. I knew the footage was for the most part unusable in a noisy restaurant (but that didn't stop me from using it in "Talking to Bill Paxton" or in "Talking to Junior Seau, Paul Allen and Dave Duerson").  In both cases, those films have footage from quieter locales.

Then, due to the pandemic, Jennifer and I were forced to have our meetings online. We both have this desire to "move the needle forward" in this research.  We aren't doing it at anyone's request, if people want to purchase the books they can - "Backstage Pass to the Flipside Part One, Part two and book three."  But they don't have to do that.

They can just tune into the podcast or watch the clips at

The set up is this - I may have decided upon interviewing someone, as I did with Congressman John Lewis - and ask them to come forward.  I did so a couple of weeks ago.  Since Prince has been an escort to many people who come into our "classroom" - I thought "If Jennifer says he's shown up" then he's bringing someone into class with him. Often it's a musician, but not always. 

In this case, a couple of weeks ago, after his death, I asked him to bring forward John if he was interested in speaking for our class. He was not at that point. I didn't say to Jennifer "We want to speak to John Lewis" - but when she said "Prince is here" - I said "Does he want to bring forward the person I suggested this morning, or is he not ready for that?"

Jennifer said "He's not ready for that, but he wants to speak about the pandemic."  That interview is here:

Then this past week, I invited John Lewis again. Or rather, as noted, I was in my kitchen and I got the "impression" that he wanted to speak to our group.  I got that impression because of a person's image that popped into my mind - someone I associate with fighting for equal rights, the activist from my home town Fred Hampton. I've written a script about him ("Wingspread") but that's on a back burner because the makers of "Black Panther" have announced they're making a film about him.  Which makes total sense - and I hope they do his story justice. It's an amazing story about an individual who thought up free clinics for impoverished people, and created food banks for children who were hungry in Chicago. For his efforts, he was murdered by the Chicago Police (under direct orders from J. Edgar Hoover and Cointel FBI agents - as learned in a court case recently.)

But that made me realize that John Lewis was in the wings - about two hours prior to our meeting.  So I took the time to look up some facts about him, his mother, father and wife - who had all preceded him, and this one detail jumped out at me. That he knew two of the three boys murdered in Mississippi - Michael, Andrew and James - freedom riders who he knew and rode with.  

I want to say that question "jumped" into my mind as a "proof of concept."  Because Jennifer didn't know these boys, I didn't say who they were, I just asked if he had been reunited with those friends.  And his reply is what brought me to tears. I asked him to show Jennifer what happened to them - and he did.

Proof of concept.

Jennifer didn't know who these boys were. I referred to them by first names only. I asked Congressman Lewis to "show her what happened to these boys."

Andrew, James and Michael

That's how communication works.  Sometimes with impressions, feelings or words - but in this case with visual images.  I don't know what she saw that made her say "they were killed by the Ku Klux Klan."  But she was accurate.

Dr. King holding up the Freedom Rider's pictures.

I also asked about Emmett Till.

I did not say his whole name. I new that Jennifer would not know who Emmett was just by the use of his first name. Note that on the video she writes it onto her clipboard. "Emmett."  Then he said he had reunited with Emmett.

Emmet's murder profoundly affected John Lewis. I thought he might have seen him since returning home.

Emmett Till (Wikipedia)

Which gave me a massive chill and brought me to tears.

I apologize for the tears. But sometimes this information does that.  It's overwhelming.

Emmett Till in my hometown of Chicago.

Which leads me to another point. 

Someone on took the time to write to me about two things that bothered him in this interview. One was that John Lewis would suggest who we vote for - based on the research that shows once we "go home" we can see that life is way more complicated and planned out than we can imagine, that those who prevent people from voting may be part of a larger plan to teach people lessons in unconditional love, etc.

"Why would John Lewis be concerned about the vote? From his perspective everything happens for a reason, doesn't it?" 

My reply: "Thanks for the comment. Couple of things. He didn't say to vote for Joe. He said vote for Jack in the box. We assumed he meant vote against the current administration.

But if you read the books.. and Jennifer and I have been interviewing people on the flipside for five years. When he was elected people came forward to say how much the loathe him. People reported he was a necessary evil to inspire those to rise up against what he represents. Famous politicians who mock him. We've interviewed John McCain - he still loathes him but so does Lincoln. 

Every politician we've talked to says he's a disaster. (Then I went into my personal interactions with him - having had a film premier at Mar al Lago (the only filmmaker to do so.)  The star of my film Dina Merrill loathed him and had numerous creepy stories about him - which I've heard and witnessed first hand.  I won't go into detail, because this is not about that fellow - but why John Lewis would care.) 

But I’m the one who prodded John about voting. He was answering questions. I'm the one who prodded him about everything."  (These reports are in the books "Backstage Pass to the Flipside" and for the most part I leave them in verbatim. They even claimed to be responsible for the photograph of the President walking up Air Force One with toilet paper on his shoe.)

The other observation was the shifting answer about the number of "his children."

Jennifer said "He had 3 children? I'm seeing three."  I said "He had one that we know of." She said "I'm seeing more, like six. That's what he's showing me."

So here's where most people freeze - stop - get off the bus so to speak (reference intended).  

"He had one child so she must be wrong or making this all up."  That's what people do - and that's fine. They aren't meant to know this information, they should return the book, turn off the channel, move on.  This research is not for them.  

But hang on.  

For those who have been paying attention or read the series of books: "Backstage Pass to the Flipside."

As I've learned over the past 5 years of doing this every week - Jennifer doesn't make up what she's seeing.  She can misinterpret what she's seeing, or in trying to explain what she's sensing - but that's why I'm here. 

Jennifer works with law enforcement agencies nationwide on missing person cases.

I could have said "No, he had one child, let's move on." But I know better.  She asked him the question (in her mind, live on camera) "Why am I seeing these children?" And she said aloud "They're Martin Luther King's children. It's like he treated them as his own."

I had no idea if that was accurate. If one knew their story - how close they were, they might assume that - but neither Jennifer nor I knew his story in such detail. 

And if this was a chapter in a book (and who knows, maybe it will be) I would have transcribed the session, then taken the time to look up each and every comment.  

In this case, it took me two seconds to find this interview of Congressman Lewis at Coretta Scott King's memorial.

John Lewis Wikipedia

ED GORDON, PBS host: "Joining me now, democratic Congressman John Lewis of Georgia.  

Congressman JOHN LEWIS (Democrat, Georgia): "Thank you very much for having me today."

GORDON: A remarkable homecoming that we saw yesterday. You were there. Give us a sense of the feeling in the church.

Congressman LEWIS: Well, it was unbelievable, extraordinary, a great sense of community, a family gathering. It was a reunion of the civil rights movement, with many entertainers, political leaders, four president, foreign dignitaries, a first lady of South Africa, several ambassadors, and it was a people's gathering. It was a people coming together to say goodbye to one of the most beautiful and charming and gifted women of our time. I was so moved. At times I cried, at other times I laughed. It was very hard and very difficult to say goodbye to Coretta Scott King.

GORDON: Congressman, you had a unique relationship with the two of them, Dr. King being a mentor, someone you looked up to. And of course, through the years you've become very close with Mrs. King. On a personal level, talk to me about what you will miss most.

Congressman LEWIS: More than anything else, I will miss her late telephone call, late night calls. She would call me late at night, and we would talk, and especially right after the assassination of Dr. King, because she was planning the Martin Luther King Center. She would call and we would talk and talk. And one night she called and talked so long and so late I fell asleep on the telephone, and I heard myself snoring. And she fell asleep. And I woke up and I said, Mrs. King, Mrs. King; she was not there. And we would laugh about it.

But she was so warm. She would always ask me, how is your mother? How is your father? How are your sisters and brothers? And every birthday, Ed, that I've had for the past 20 years she would send me a birthday card, a note or a signed book. And my birthday is coming up in about two weeks and I will not get a birthday card from her, and I will not have her to say, how are you doing, John?

I remember during the march from Selma to Montgomery, 40 years ago, when we were walking up Highway 80 between Selma and Montgomery, Mrs. King and Dr. King took the cap off of Dr. King's head and said, John, you've been hurt. And Dr. King put this cap on my head and Coretta nodded in agreement; she said, you need to wear that cap to protect your head.

....GORDON: Congressman, we've lost so many giants over the course of this year in particular but over the last few years. Do you believe that the movement is in good hands...?

Congressman LEWIS: Well, I--it is my sincere belief and feeling that the movement is in very good hands. There's a cadre of young people on the move. Some are elected officials, and others are in the entertainment world and the business. But I'm not worried." 

(Copyright © 2006 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at for further information.)

In the Wikipedia entry for Martin's son he mentions a trip he took to India with John Lewis... "In February 2009, King and his wife traveled to India, fifty years after his father and mother made the trip. During his stay in India, King led a delegation, which included John Lewis." Lewis also spoke at the death of Yolanda King some years later - showing up for their family in many ways.

So in terms of seeing Martin's children being children that he felt responsible for, that looks to be accurate. Martin and Coretta had 4, John had 1. There's likely another one in their story that he also took care of that we aren't aware of yet.

Jennifer is reporting. 

The Congressman said he wept at seeing those speak at his funeral.  Energetic, etheric tears - the feeling of being overcome with emotion. Seeing the unconditional love being poured out for him.

We are reporting. 

As I report, I try to unpack, or ask questions to get to the heart of the matter, to the truth of the story. These clips are live on camera - later I can look up the details. We're capturing lightning in a bottle. But it doesn't change.

In this case, I think the interview stands on its own. 

He is still passionate about getting people to vote, and offers a solution - to invite "UN kind of monitors" into each state to oversee the election process so that when the results are tallied, there will be independent confirmation. (He may have been referring to this article in the Intercept:

I think it's a great idea and have passed it on to our congressman #TedLieu (without mentioning where it came from. Too hard to put into a tweet.)

For those who don't want to consider that our loved ones continue on, they won't consider this verification anyway. For those that have had the experience of connecting to loved ones no longer on the planet, this is a method for how to do so. 

My two cents.


When you know, you know

“When you know, you know.”

This quote came from an Oscar winning writer yesterday.  We were talking about something that had just occurred – he got some new information from the flipside, the afterlife, that could not have come from anyone else except the person he was talking to on the other side.

It's a bit like talking about skydiving. People who've never done it can have an opinion on it, but only those who've experienced it "know" the experience.

                Luana Anders. An avatar in a mirror.

In this case – it was this writer's dog.  

I knew his dog well, walked him for three years when I worked for his owner, and had no clue that we could access his dog… until we did. 

About a year or two ago, I organized a skype session with him and Jennifer Shaffer, medium extraordinaire. During the course of the session, I was filming, he was accessing a close pal no longer on the planet, when I asked if we could talk to "Hira.” (It's in the book "Backstage Pass to the Flipside" Part one)

                         With Jennifer Shaffer

My friend paused. “Can we do that?” 

I said “Let’s see.”  

And Jennifer said “Why am I seeing a giant white rug?”  My friend held up a photograph of him – he was a giant Hungarian sheepdog – a bit like a giant white shag rug.  That day we conversed with him – asked him questions, he gave answers that only he would know (about me, about a trip he and I went on together, about a trip he went on with our friend that only he would know about – that Jennifer could not because I did not.) 

My friend had a million questions after that session. “How could that be?” 

I have done my best to encapsulate the research, the thousands of cases of deep hypnosis I’ve examined, the 50 I’ve filmed, the 50 I’ve filmed without hypnosis – people saying the same thing over and over.  “We don’t die. We know we still exist. It’s you, our loved ones, who pretend we don’t.”  

I’ve spoken to friends of this writer, friends of mine – I’ve filmed those interactions and shared them with their family members or the public in the books “Backstage Pass to the Flipside” books one, two and three.

Yesterday my friend had a chat over the phone with Jennifer – just a casual chat saying hello. 

And she said “Hira wants you to take a yellow cough drop.”  My friend hadn’t coughed, so he said “What? Why?”  

And Jennifer said “I don’t know why, but Hira is saying you used to take these yellow cough drops – and he’s concerned about you, and wants you to take them.  And my friend revealed to her that very morning he had woken up with a cough, and that no one else knew about it.

It’s an example of new information. 

The medium, Jennifer could not have known that he woke up with a cough. Could not have known that he used to take these particular “yellow cough drops.”  (They’re specific and special, and believe me, having worked for the guy for years, could only be found in one or two stores on the planet.)  And yet, here was his dog, who passed over 30 years ago – telling him that he needed to take those same drops for his current cough.

Get it?

“When you know. You know.”

                                       With a couple of avatars.

As I pointed out to him, no one else is going to “believe” that they can access their loved ones on the flipside from hearing that story. 

In fact, only one person on the planet would realize this to be accurate, that this story was meant for him, that this story would prove beyond any shadow of any doubt that he had, it was true.

But he has an Oscar and I don’t. 

In the hierarchical world we live in - he's got a PhD in writing, while I'm just a fellow who films people talking about the afterlife. So until he wants to announce to the world that he knows what he knows, people will have to take my word for it that he said it.  

But it made me think of another comment I was replying to. About "PhD's" in consciousness.

This fellow on was complaining about my reports on the flipside.

I had posted an innocuous comment in the forum I moderate and created “Hacking the Afterlife” on  (It was in response to someone posting about the accuracy of consciousness existing outside the body...)

RM: "Thousands upon thousands of people have had NDE’s that are skeptics, non religious or every variety imaginable. Check out for the most reliable source of information on NDEs - and there are quite a few to read..."

This Poster asked: "Why do you think that there is such a thing as a disembodied mind?"

RM: "I don’t think about it much. Or to quote Carl Jung “I don’t think, I know.” Having done six deep hypnosis sessions, having filmed over 100 (50 without hypnosis) I’m aware of how consciousness works when not incarnated in a body. 

We have this illusion that it begins with us - like an avatar in a video game believing that they are in actuality the source of their behavior. The research shows we bring about a third of our conscious energy to a lifetime, two thirds is always “back home” where we started from. 

All the research points to the same thing; we choose our lifetimes (avatars) we construct them to behave in this environment (as best we can, we have free will to screw things up and often do) and when the game is over we return home and become aware of all the other lifetimes. I’ve been filming people saying the exact same thing for over a decade now, so no - it’s not a belief of mine."

Poster: "You've been filming the exact same thing for a decade now, so in a nutshell, what have you deduced from this?"

RM: "Let's see... I have 8 books on the topic. You want one sentence? Life goes on. Life didn’t begin either - we chose to come here, volunteered for the mission so to speak. We have no awareness of it unless we have a consciousness altered event - NDE, OBE, LSD, meditation or hypnotherapy. .We can bypass the filters. It’s not for everyone - but for those who want to figure it out, there’s a path. In “Architecture of the Afterlife” - I filmed about 50 people doing the exact same journey, saying the same things people under hypnosis said - without any hypnosis. Check it out. Mind bending."

Poster: "We choose to come here? What a load of nonsense. I don't care if everyone rambles the same under hypnosis. People interpret what they want to believe. Science outright rejects an afterlife.

There is no such thing as a disembodied mind. Good day."

(Ah, finally - we get to the opinion of this poster. That materialist science is accurate and non materialist science is not (as they refer to it at UVA, where they study consciousness)  So I replied (how could I not?)

RM: "I'm sorry. Let me amend that. Everyone chose to come here but this fellow.

In all the thousands of cases I've researched, the 2750 from Dr. Helen Wambach, the 7k from Michael Newton, the 100 I've filmed of people accessing previous lifetimes with historical accuracy - half under hypnosis and half not I've finally found the one person who didn't volunteer to incarnate.

I'd pop champagne if I could.

I would offer that there's plenty of science that demonstrates consciousness exists outside the brain.. I could cite the over 100 peer reviewed studies done by Dr. Greyson at UVA, the peer reviewed studies done by Ed and Emily Kelly PhDs at UVA, “Irreducible Mind" or the 1500 cases of reincarnation under review by Dr Tucker at UVA, the 30 years of research by Ian Stevenson at UVA or the 10 years of NDE cases cited in the Aware project by Dr. Sam Parnia… but what would be the point?

This one fellow claims he didn't choose to be here.

I could query all those involved with that choice - parents, siblings, teachers, guides.. I could even query this person's higher self (the two thirds of conscious energy that stays behind during a lifetime) and without this fellow’s awareness here - could learn why he chose to be here and not realize why.

Again - without his even being aware of it here, his higher self knows what I'm talking about. (As demonstrated in the book “Architectureof the Afterlife.”)

But I wouldn't do that. 

It would be fun… but it would be impolite. One cannot interfere with a person's path or journey.. people don’t all sign up to know how the play ends… for the most part we aren’t allowed to interfere with anyone’s chosen path or journey… except I just did.

Everyone who has read this reply has a higher self that knows exactly what I'm referring to and by reading this comment has realized it's possible to direct someone's awareness to the research.

Oops. Sorry. Have a good day.”

Folks don't like hearing that no one is dead. Not sure why.

The poster was not finished: 

Poster: "You should read Antonio Damasio’s papers. He's a renowned neuroscientist, you are not."

RM: "You should read David Presti’s book “Mind Beyond Brain.” He’s a renowned neuroscientist as well. or let’s take a gander at Dr. Greyson’s peer reviewed papers:  or watch the video “Is consciousness produced by the brain” where Greyson cites the medical cases where it is not only.

Or these peer reviewed studies about consciousness:

Or these peer reviewed studies about consciousness existing outside the brain: Irreducible Mind

Or take five minutes to look at the research at DOPS at UVA. It's not my opinion, theory or belief. I turn on the camera, film what they say and am startled that they say the same things the research demonstrates. Division of Perceptual Studies | University of Virginia School of Medicine.”

Poster: "…Also when the brain is put in a dream like state, it can be coaxed into coming out with all sorts of fantastical things which, unfortunately is interpreted as a past life."

My final reply:

RM: "I try to focus on new information. That is - details that can be proven that aren’t cryptomnesia. New information that the person under hypnosis, or not under hypnosis (as demonstrated in “Architecture of the Afterlife”) observes, sees, learns during the experience. 

That is not limited to near death events (Dr. Alexander learning he had a sister who had died but never met, Todd Burpo learning he had a sister who died he had never met, David Bennett, scientist who died from drowning for 12 minutes (“Voyage of Purpose”) where he saw the events that would occur later in life - a diagnosis of cancer he would overcome - and then 20 years later it occurred. He’s been studied in the DOPS lab at UVA - perhaps this poster isn’t aware of it - but it’s a place to study consciousness outside the brain (as cited above.) Division ofPerceptual Studies | University of Virginia School of Medicine -

While Antonio Damasio is a scholar (and a neighbor, as I went to USC), he’s dealing with materialist science without the benefit of post materialist research (quantum mechanics visa vis the brain). I recommend listening to some David Bohm (physicist) conversations with Krishnamurti (at the site in Ojai, where they have all online) or a proof of concept exercise. Antonio (or anyone) can visit a hypnotherapist - see what the process entails - do their own session and see what the results are. It’s one thing to talk about skydiving, but another to experience it.

I’ve filmed 100 cases, done six myself - and done the forensic research to see how accurate my memories are (“Flipside” book and film, “Talking to Bill Paxton” film, “It’s a Wonderful Afterlife” interviews with scientists, “Hacking the Afterlilfe” interviews with mediums, “Backstage Pass to the Flipside” interviews with people I knew on the flipside, and “Architecture of the Afterlife” with people not under hypnosis accessing the same information.) 

It’s not my opinion, theory or belief these people say the same things. I’m only filming them. I’m a filmmaker you see. I film people and then transcribe what they say. And beyond a shadow of any doubt I have - I could connect Antonio to his parents on the flipside, and prove beyond any shadow of doubt he might have that they still exist and are accessible. But anyone can do that. 

I suggest one try, no harm in self experimenting.”


My two cents

Which is my way of saying “When you know, you know.”

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